Thank You Everyone!
12.04.09 | Ariane |
Thank you to everyone who donated to the campaign in its six-month donation phase. We raised a phenomenal amount – during a credit crunch, no less – and special thanks should go to Simon Bishop, Richard Williams, Malcolm Dodd, Andrea Busby, Oliver Rowland, Deedyi, Dave Worrall, Gordon Livesey, and everyone else who kept the page alive and helped make the campaign such a success.
The JustGiving page is now closed. We’ll keep you updated on everything that’s happening here, but until then, I’ll leave those of you who haven’t yet seen it with this beautiful story:
Thank you again for your generosity, and see you soon.
April 12th, 2009 at 20:16
Well, thank you!
April 12th, 2009 at 20:56
Thanks for your great idea and your kind and upbeat attitide.
The Daily Mail has just stereotyped all non-believers as smug, self-satisfied haters, for a change (in an article by AN Wilson – he seems to be losing his marbles somewhat, unless it was heavily edited). Suprise surprise they are also not publishing any comments sent by people who disagree with their view [apart from insulting atheists the article essentially says doing things like praising the risen Lord in an Easter parade makes him feel nice and only a smug, "tieless", liberal "clever-clogs" - such as Jonathan Ross (wearing a tie in their illustration) or Jo Brand, or that mean Mr Dawkins - would question whether the Bible stories actually happened and are true or not].
I think this campaign has shown their stereotype is not true and I think less people will believe it now.
Once religious ideas and bodies are no longer given disproportionate respect and influence just because they have been around a long time, and they are looked on as just theories that are open to being examined and criticised freely, and people without religious beliefs are no longer looked down on as likely to be less moral or less warm and humane, then we won’t need campaigns like this.
Till then it has had its place in making modern Britain (and other places that have been inspired to do their own versions) a little bit nicer and more sane, healthy and free-thinking, I think.
April 12th, 2009 at 21:03
. . and thank you Ariane for having the idea in the first place and carrying it through so good-humouredly.
I really believe it has changed the world a little and an enormous number of people will forever be just that little bit happier because of it. xxx
April 12th, 2009 at 21:04
I watched His Holiness Darth Benedict on TV this morning. I have now converted to Catholicism. Do I get a refund?
April 12th, 2009 at 23:42
Thank you and well done Ariane, this movement has really turned heads.
Loved the video, kudos to the person who came up with it, there really are so many different cupboards out there!
April 13th, 2009 at 1:05
Yes, it is a cute video. We certainly should all try to get along and be kind to each other – using those shared human values and empathy Humanism reminds us about. We’re never all going to have exactly the same outlook on the world and we should judge people on how they act not what they believe
April 13th, 2009 at 19:56
Well, it was a blast!!
Thank you Ariane for the idea, your time, your hard work, and being so kind and attentive to the ABC supporters! Good luck with whatever it is you’re up to – and if you ever need help inflating balloons again, just whistle!
And also thanks to the backroom boys including Graham Nunn and Jon Worth, and those at the BHA including Andrew Copson and Hanne Stinson.
PS. Am I the only one to spot the anagram in the cartoon above? The boy makes his own cupboard, and the letters on the drawers spell out:
ALL BULLSHiT
Okay, maybe everyone got it! I’ll get my coat…
April 14th, 2009 at 2:22
Thanks Ariane – you started something special here. When the campaign first took off on the Jut Giving page, it felt like something new – finally a way to express how I felt about all this. We also did something unique here guys, that page ended up being a discussion where people paid to post a comment. I even remember one poster mentioning that they were rounding up to a certain donation, and a calculation error produced many posts trying to correct it!
I hope everyone involved in this keeps talking about their beliefs to others. I don’t think we have the right to force others to change what they believe, but nor should we sit down and accept rules of society that infringe our human rights.
April 14th, 2009 at 6:39
haha no I hadn’t noticed that. I take it that version of the cupboard is meant to show if you tried to follow every verse in the Bible it would be pretty much impossible and that most Christians pick and choose to some extent?
April 14th, 2009 at 9:33
Oliver R:
Yeah, or it’s a verdict on the sum total of all the various instruction manuals!
I spotted the answer immediately. I’m one of those sad people who solves most word-puzzles and conundrums straight away!
April 14th, 2009 at 17:31
I’d like to echo the sentiments of all those that praised you before me. You have brought enlightenment to many who struggled with what they wanted and what was expected of them.
Well done.
April 14th, 2009 at 19:15
Thank *you* Ariane. You had an inspired idea, and it was a real delight to catch my first glimpse of the logo in Oxford. There may have been a lot of donations, but without your original article, there would have been no campaign.
Also, having finally had a chance to watch that video, I think I have something in my eye. That was beautiful. Reminiscent of PZ Myers’ “Courtier reply”.
April 14th, 2009 at 20:31
Thanks for the mention!
I meant to get on to post a goodbye donation but I was a little hungover on saturday and forgot 
Never mind though. The campaign continues and I think momentum is gathering in the wider issues around non-belief and people are starting to see religion differently.
The ABC caught the mood at just the right moment and has no doubt helped to nudge it along a bit.
I first found out about the ABC on the Fox news website where I was laughing at the religious right’s reaction to Obama’s likley looking victory. The story entitled No God on London Busses caught my eye and a google search found the just giving page. Unsurprisingly there was no link from the news story!
It just goes to show though that information is key. Even in a dark and fetid place like the Fox Network you can find a little light if you look closely enough!
April 14th, 2009 at 22:26
haha Richard; but just watched it again and I do think it is him trying to do/believe everything his holy book says though – and I noticed this time how he says “I had to prop it up with books” – I guess that is the apologetics/theology that is churned out. It’s a lovely video anyway
April 14th, 2009 at 22:55
Congratulations and well done to everyone involved.
I wear my T-shirt with pride!
The work continues…
April 15th, 2009 at 10:55
Thanks for all your lovely comments. Really glad you enjoyed the campaign and the video. Forgot to say: everyone here is on our email list, and we’ll send you an email later in the year when the second phase of the campaign begins.
(If you’ve donated and let us have your email address, you’re on the list – but if not, just email me at ariane {at} arianesherine(.)com and I’ll add you.)
April 15th, 2009 at 13:27
@Oliver R (post No.2)
I too have commented on the Wilson article in the Daily Mail, and I too have been censored, it would seem only messages of total agreement are welcome.
We’re expected to put up with threats of damnation and vilification, yet they can’t handle a little criticism.
April 17th, 2009 at 12:20
Thanks to all who created and ran the campaign.
Not only has it been a hoot, but the worldwide publicity has brought many cats out of the closet.
Now that we are rolling, we must maintain the momentum – please let me know how I can contribute.
April 17th, 2009 at 22:25
Sorry, but if you are trying to persuade people not to believe in God, are you not at the same time telling them how they should live? This would make this campaign no better than the church. I think that anyone who does not want to believe in God will eventually become a atheist so why bother and advertise this?
April 18th, 2009 at 9:39
@Jens
So that people like me know that we are not alone, and to give those sitting on the fence the encouragement to follow their doubts instead of the threats of eternal damnation, that’s why!
The adverts are different in that solace is offered, but atheism isn’t rammed down peoples throats, well not by this campaign anyway.
I’m happy that common ground has been found, for those of us who are freethinkers, to share our lines of thought.
April 18th, 2009 at 11:54
Jens,
You can’t seem to leave these atheist blogs alone? Almost as if you are scratching at a sore place. Why does atheism worry you so much?
April 18th, 2009 at 12:43
@ quedula
Sorry, but i wasn’t trying to scratch at some sore place. I just came to this because i am supposed to write a report about the AC for my school newspaper. It’s not like I am surfing through the internet looking for anti- religios sites just to critisize them. However as I looked at the site and I was just speaking my thoughts, I did not want to offend the campaign but merely ask if it wasn’t a mistake using so much money for this. Btw this is the only atheist blog i ever wrote on.
@ Pete
Wow, I would have never thought that you would feel like you are alone as an atheist, due to the fact that where I live there is a great group of people that do not believe in god and it is not something kept secret. Sure adverts are not rammed down peoples throughts and i think that this site as a forum is great but is it really necessary to spend all this money for advertisements telling us not to believe in god?
April 18th, 2009 at 13:06
Jens
Where is this utopian place “there is a great group of people that do not believe in god and it is not something kept secret”?
Sweden?
April 18th, 2009 at 13:16
@Jens
I think you misunderstand, either that or you didn’t read my last post properly, the aim of this site isn’t to convert ardent theists, it is to show those who have been terrorised by threats of hellfire and damnation into following a religion that there is no need to worry. To follow your own mind, and let the world know you are not alone.
I’ve been a quiet atheist all my life, I’ve never evangelised or tried to convert, but I have suffered insults and lectures from theists, and until now I’ve been alone. There are no atheist churches, mosques or synagogues, there are no meeting places, so the message that this campaign has brought is that as atheists we are not alone.
You are quite welcome to believe in your god, and I’m happy that it gives you comfort, so be happy that we as atheists are uniting as one voice in support of all those doubters out there.
Or do you feel threatened in any way? Perhaps those previously uncounted doubters that are now coming out of the closet to be counted, and beginning to outnumber Christians feel like a threat to your faith?
May your god go with you, but please accept that I’m happy with my freedom to think for myself.
April 18th, 2009 at 13:28
Jens,
Although I wholeheartedly support this campaign I personally am much less tolerant of believers, particularly those also enjoying all the benefits of western civilisation, than its sponsors. I agree with Sam Harris & A C Grayling that everywhere and at everytime you look in the world the effects of religion are overwhelmingly negative and the first step to destroying its influence is to sow in peoples’ minds doubts of the existence of a responsive supernatural agent.
(Incidentally i meant it was your own sore your were scratching not ours)
April 18th, 2009 at 19:02
@ Malcolm Dodd
This “utopian” place is just in Europe called Vienna (in Austria, I dont know if Sweden is the same) though in my opinion its not as perfekt as you might think.
@ Pete
I understand you fully and I am completely fine if you want to make your group meetings, forum or anything else there is. I also don’t feel threatend by any means of this campaign. All i am saying is that there are much more useful ways to spend the money that goes for actually advetising this. I mean I never saw a ad for christians, moslems, hindus or any other religion telling others they should be religious. Btw I don’t want to offend you but somehow it feels like you are treating atheism itself as a “religion”, meaning that the difference between atheist and a religios person is the same as the difference between a christian and a hindu.
April 18th, 2009 at 19:19
@Jen
Goodness me, you can mind read too! No I don’t treat atheism as a religion, for a start I don’t have an imaginary man in the sky to worship, although the Flying Spaghetti Monster could quite easily fill that role.
As for wasted money on adverts, what do you think started all this off in the first place, I don’t know where you are, but if you come to the UK and see all the adverts here, or better still, go to America.
So it’s not wasted money, not from our point of view, but if you’re concerned about donations being wasted, you could go to my ‘Justgiving’ web page and donate to a charity. Click on my name above.
April 18th, 2009 at 20:18
Jens
Advertising by the religionists is everywhere in the UK. That is what provoked the Atheist Bus campaign in the UK.
In June 2008, Ariane saw a red London bus featuring a Bible quote and the URL of a website. When she visited the website, it told her non-Christians would burn in hell for all eternity.
Have you noticed the worldwide discussion and emulation of the campaign, it is encouraging people to come out of the closet and not be ashamed to have consigned religious belief into the same realm as the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
As Richard Lederer said “There once was a time when all people believed in god and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages”.
You are fortunate to live in Vienna that bucks the 2005 national average of 17% who have no religion. The heathen nature of Austria that you conjure up has little basis in fact. In 2001 over 900,000 people were churchgoers, that is approximately the same number as in the UK whose population is 8 times that of your country.
You obviously, desperately need an Atheist Bus campaign to persuade the atheists (who are included in the 2005 statistic that 68% of the total Austrian population is Roman Catholic) to be more truthful.
Best wishes
Malcolm
April 18th, 2009 at 21:01
@ Pete
Well I live in Austria (its a small country under Germany) and here there are no ads well don’t know about the UK but the US seems to be obvious. Well don’t worry about my donations I give those to various organisations as AI and many more. Well I still think that the money could be used better but since its not my money I don’t want to tell you what you should do with it.
April 18th, 2009 at 21:15
@Jen
How very magnanimous of you, so it’s OK with for the money to be used to get the word out to others who may have doubts, but need encouragement instead of threats to use their own mind.
Unfortunately I haven’t been to Austria, so I wouldn’t know, but take it from me that we do indeed have adverts. If you read through this web site you’ll find and account of why Ariane Sherine was prompted to undertake the atheist bus campaign.
I don’t appreciate being threatened with everlasting damnation by anyone, this is why I fully support this campaign to fight these outrageous threats.
April 18th, 2009 at 21:38
Jens,
Although I wholeheartedly support this campaign I personally am much less tolerant of believers, particularly those also enjoying all the benefits of western civilisation, than the campaign sponsors. I agree with Sam Harris & A C Grayling that everywhere and at everytime you look in the world the effects of religion are overwhelmingly negative and the first step to destroying its influence is to sow in peoples’ minds doubts of the existence of a responsive supernatural agent.
(Incidentally i meant it was your own sore you were scratching not ours)
April 18th, 2009 at 22:26
First of all why do you use the word “although”? This campaign is not condradicting anyone who is less tolerant to believers. Second of all saying that “the effects of religion are overwhelmingly negative” is VERY exaggeratory. I am sorry but you somehow seem like a fanatic and its the first time I am confronted with a fanatic of atheism so I do not really know how to react. However your example shows quite good that there are fanatics in every religion and seemingly also between the non believers. So if there are religious people saying that those who don’t believe will burn in hell you can say that person must be a fanatic. An ordinary religious person will never or should never say something like this. Sure maybe they will think that way but they should keep it to them selves and not attack others with it.
April 18th, 2009 at 22:28
Sorry i forgot to mention that the former message was ment for quedula.
April 18th, 2009 at 22:40
“So if there are religious people saying that those who don’t believe will burn in hell you can say that person must be a fanatic.”
You can say that again, you’ll never hear atheists sounding off with vitriolic remarks quite like this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maeNk2itmMk
This is the kind of religious clap trap I loath and will stand up to, but I will not respond with like for like.
May your god go with you.
April 18th, 2009 at 22:54
@ Pete
Truly I can say this representing every sane religios person that the man in that video and every person who is like him is just a disgrace to their religion. He is a complete idiot and a fanatic who does not get what the bible actualy is about, quoting from it not know wat its actualy about. But well please do not generalize as so quickly. I fully agree with you loathing this kind of idiocy.
April 18th, 2009 at 23:16
The bible is the biggest problem in Christianity, it’s so vague that anyone and everyone reads it differently, and reads it to represent their views, no matter how warped and twisted. But I have no written text to follow, I use my own mind to decide what is right and what is wrong. Societal rules, laws, etc. are what help me be the decent guy I am, not even the Flying Spaghetti Monster can influence my life…….. I do!
April 18th, 2009 at 23:58
Well I’ve said this before ….. the thing is, we don’t need religion we just need to be nice to each other.
That really is all there is to it.
April 19th, 2009 at 2:03
Ok, so I’ve arrived late at this thread: just to thank Ariane and her co-conspirators for this campaign. I do think it is needed and do think that in some small way will liberate many of those who are frightened that, come judgement day (?), they will burn in ever lasting hell.
@Pete, Jens, Queduala et all, I’d like to point you in the direction of Dave Allen. The first I’ve posted here before, the second is not half bad either!
So, as DA would say, ‘…may your god go with you…’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo81Ok9Urk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCOZQSRzKmU
April 19th, 2009 at 12:08
@ Pete
Well its good if u decide whats good and whats not and so the bible isn’t a book that tells you how to decide but it for christians its a history book. It is through the experiece depicted in that book that it should help them decide whats write or wrong. In the end everyone decides for himself.
@ Ian Andrews
You are right, noone needs religion, but theists do not believe in their religion to have a better life or there is some sence in there life. They believe in god because for them it is true. Simply, even if god was someone who was about to destroy the whole world and torture them it would not mean that they would stop believing in him, due to the fact that they believe god is real and true and not because they need all this.
@ Roy
Well interesting movie but I kind of don’t know how to react to it since its just some comedian.
April 19th, 2009 at 12:39
@Jens (Sorry, omitted the ‘S’ previously.)
You are obviously a level headed Christian, and it isn’t you who I target, it is those people who use the bible to reinforce their bigotry, and quote the bible as factual. Tell me, are you a creationist or evolutionist?
As I’ve previously stated, I was quite happy being a quiet atheist, and is Christians were happy to practice their religion in the same way I wouldn’t have taken the stance I have, but we are constantly harassed by theists trying to convert us, either in person or through adverts.
Leave us alone and we’ll leave you alone, although I do think it’s great that the campaign has given many the strength to come out as atheists, despite the religious bullies.
April 19th, 2009 at 13:47
Thank you for your compliment and to answer your question I do not think that creation and evolution must necessary contradict themselves. Surely there are relations between species though I believe there must have been a start. Life can’t come out of nothing and thats the point where god must have created. Frankly I believe that the things that have been created at first probably just evolved. Then some might say that in the bible it says that the world was created in seven days but the bible is so full of metaphores that this could also just be a metaphore for much longer time or representing steps. Who know maybe a day represents 10 billion years or something. Noone can tell for sure. It is ok if you want fight those who attack you with there believes but this campaign kind of also offends those who keep there believe as something private.
April 19th, 2009 at 13:48
Sorry again forgot to mention that the former message was for Pete
April 19th, 2009 at 14:15
@Jens (Who else?)
You’re employing circular argument, the usual ploy of the religious to explain the fallacies of the bible.
Mix and match of bible fairy tales and scientific discovery isn’t going to convince anyone.
So the seven days thing is just a metaphor, or so say you, but there are nut jobs in America who would argue otherwise. Who am I supposed to believe, you, them, or should I trust my own judgment?
You write “This campaign kind of also offends those who keep there believe as something private” but neglect to mention how I’m offended at being called a heathen, and the threats I receive on a daily basis, yes the threat of everlasting damnation, it gets tiresome after the thousandth time.
I have as much freedom to espouse my beliefs as you theists do, so why should you be offended while I’m expected to live with it?
I’ve never been on a Christian web site to try to dissuade believers from turning, so why do you feel the need to come here and convince me that I’m wrong?
April 19th, 2009 at 14:29
I misunderstand me I am not telling you not to do this but merely make it clear that the ones you are fighting are not the ones believing in god but those who disturb others with it being fanatics and so on and as I said I just came to this website because I was writing a report about it for my newspaper, its not like I felt the need to go to some atheist website to convince others of my belief.
April 19th, 2009 at 15:09
@Jens
Aah, now I see, but you still misunderstand, there is no intention to attack those who really want to believe in a god, this is to offer those frightened into belief, by threats of eternal damnation, a word of encouragement to come out and follow their own beliefs, or lack of them as the case may be.
Allow each and every person their own choice, if Christians feel threatened by this…. tough!
The idea that Christianity is a dying concept worries those who stand to loose out, the church leaders who live off the backs of worshipers, whose weekly donations keep them.
April 19th, 2009 at 15:34
Recommended viewing for those with doubts about their faith, look and learn.
Edward Current – http://tinyurl.com/cseeru
Bible readings – http://tinyurl.com/crrru2
Make sure you watch them from the first video in each set.
Enjoy
April 19th, 2009 at 15:36
@ Pete
Well I would not say that the church is actualy feeling threatend by this because I have heard they even support it (speeking of the catholic church). Saying that it will strenthen those who believe in god and those who become atheists did not really believe in god in the first place anyway. Well as long as you are fighting for the right reasons I guess this campaign is fine.
April 19th, 2009 at 17:19
Jens
Advertising by the religionists is everywhere in the UK. That is what provoked the Atheist Bus campaign in the UK.
In June 2008, Ariane Sherine saw a red London bus featuring a Bible quote and the URL of a website. When she visited the website, it told her non-Christians would burn in hell for all eternity.
Have you noticed the worldwide discussion and emulation of the campaign, it is encouraging people to come out of the closet and not be ashamed to have consigned religious belief into the same realm as the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
As Richard Lederer said “There once was a time when all people believed in god and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages”.
You are fortunate to live in Vienna that you say bucks the 2005 national average of 17% who have no religion. The heathen nature of Austria that you conjure up has little basis in fact. In 2001 over 900,000 people were churchgoers, that is approximately the same number as in the UK whose population is 8 times that of your country.
You obviously, desperately need an Atheist Bus campaign to persuade the atheists (who are likely included in the 2005 statistic that 68% of the total Austrian population is Roman Catholic) to be more truthful.
Best wishes
Malcolm
April 19th, 2009 at 17:41
Jens,
I am puzzled. I presume you are the same Jens who has been a very prolific poster on the ABC facebook page. It seems that this campaign has a strange hold on you. I think you have explored the subject from every angle and received the same basic answers over and over again. Yet you keep coming back for more.
Dare we think that the simple slogan “There probably is no god” has made an indelible impression on your mind?
April 20th, 2009 at 0:33
@ Jens in #39
‘Well interesting movie but I kind of don’t know how to react to it since its just some comedian.’
How easily you dismiss the content of the Dave Allen video clips!
Does this mean you only take seriously things said by philosophers?
You seem to have a pretty good understanding of the English language so you must have understood what was said in the clips.
Do you not understand the irony and satire in the clips based on DA’s own personal experience of the teachings of the Catholic Church?
On the other hand if you do understand but don’t find it funny because it takes a rise from the teachings of the church, then you are one step away from being in the same drawer as those who would threaten death on those who drew cartoons of Muhammad.
If the latter, then as Quedula hints in #49, is there a bee in your bonnet?
April 20th, 2009 at 5:35
Jens
If you are female and not married, I am available; we could have some FASCINATING discussions about religion over dinner and a bottle of red wine!!!!
Malcolm
April 20th, 2009 at 15:37
@ Malcolm Dodd
Sorry, but I am male and hetero but I guess I will take it as a compliment, thanks for the offer. Though I doubt that an atheist bus is needed for Vienna since here its all pretty open.
@ quedula
Well I am on facebook but I am pretty sure there are enough people called Jens on facebook so I am not sure if I am the one you mean. I also have no profilic photos on facebook, just normal ones with friends. Truly I am normaly don’t care about atheist buses or anything. The reason why I am writing back so often is because if you are talking to me I feel like I should answer.
@ Roy
I am sorry if I offended you but for me the video was just normal comedy. I did think most of it was funny but nothing that I could serious. I just felt like as if people make rasist jokes about indians (I am Indian) … I think they are funny but at the same time I know its not true.
April 20th, 2009 at 17:36
Jens
Damn.
April 22nd, 2009 at 13:38
NewsBiscuit reports new bus campaign http://newsbiscuit.com/2009/04/22/agnostics-undecided-on-launching-publicity-campaign/
Ha Ha
April 22nd, 2009 at 18:25
lol that’s good
April 28th, 2009 at 19:16
Ah, what a lovely campaign! At last – the chance to stick it not just to “the man”, but to “The Man”! Nice video too. Should be compulsory viewing in all schools! Thanks Ariane!
May 1st, 2009 at 16:50
Hi, I have only just recently stumbled upon these websites for atheists (just 5mins ago infact) and I just want to say that I find it appealing!
I am an Atheist and if you knew what the word Atheist meant then you would know that these websites should not exist at all! It is wrong!
And what is with the donations?! This is not a church!!
If you have anything you wish to say to me then I would love for you to email me at heavenlytear_1 {at} hotmail(.)com.
May 2nd, 2009 at 14:44
@Katherine
Errm, you appear to contradict yourself, first you say the site is appealing, then you say it should not exist, and is wrong!!!!!!
What’s with the donations? Try reading the site and why the money was raised in the first place. Even atheists need a collective voice to speak out against the constant drumming and threats of the religious message.
Nice try with the e-mail address, if you think I’m going to reveal my address to anyone I don’t know, then think again, and I would urge anyone else to exercise caution, this is the classic ploy of spammers.
The statement “I am an Atheist” is telling, well it’s telling me that you may not be who you claim to be. This would be like a butcher going to a butchers web site and saying “I am a butcher”.
Nuff said.
May 2nd, 2009 at 15:24
@Pete
Do you think she meant “appalling”?
Very suspicious anyway.
May 2nd, 2009 at 15:42
Katherine
I have sent you links to OED and Wikipaedia deinitions of atheit.
We all waiting agog for an explanation of your contradictions.
May 2nd, 2009 at 15:56
@quedula
Aah yes, that reads more consistently, I stand corrected.
Still a bit suspicious about it though, and I hope Malcolm’s e-mail address is a throw away one, just in case!
One thing this campaign has done is to bring out all those closet atheists, a recent poll in the US indicates an increase in atheists, but I believe they were there all along, they just didn’t declare it.
May 2nd, 2009 at 15:58
Use your Library Ticket number to access all of these incredible online sites free of charge (individual subscriptions to these would cost a small fortune. Not all Libraries participate, this is the Lincolnshire list):
• OED Online – enter LIN before number
• Oxford Art Online (the new home of Grove) – enter LIN before number
• Oxford Music online (the new home of Grove) – enter LIN before number
• Oxford Reference Online – enter LIN before number
• Oxford Dictionary of National Biography – enter LIN before number
• Who’s Who and Who Was Who -enter LIN before number
• The Times Digital Archive 1785 – 1985
• Britannica Online
• Junior Britannica (5-11)
• Student Britannica (12-18)
• British Standards Online
• Smithsonian Global Sound Music Library
• Classical Music Library
• News and Periodicals – EBSCO’
• General Dental Council
• Kompass
• NewsUK
• African American Song Music Library
May 2nd, 2009 at 16:08
Pete
I believe in being open about my identity, I have identified myself on many site and have had ONLY supportive emails.
How about this for encouragement, shall we all move to France?
From Wikipaedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe-atheism-2005.svg
May 2nd, 2009 at 18:33
The Lawyers’ Secular Society (LSS) has launched its new website.
Membership is open to all lawyers, practising and non-practising,
and to students and academics.
It offers a wealth of information and research resources on many
issues relating to religious discrimination. Launching in 2008,
it has worked with many related organisations and individuals to
assist them with the legal aspects of anti-discrimination claims.
These have included working with the Southall Black Sisters, the
Secular Medical Forum, and giving lectures on topics such as
whether religious conscience should be accommodated in UK law.
These projects brought together groups of solicitors, barristers
and academics, all providing their expertise free of charge.
[Source: NSS Newsline]
To join or request advice
Lawyers’ Secular Society
http://www.lawyerssecularsociety.org/
_____
May 3rd, 2009 at 13:14
Katherine is right in one respect. This shouldn’t exist. There should be no need for it.
There should also be no need for penicillin. Or seat belts. Sadly the world isn’t perfect.
May 3rd, 2009 at 15:13
@Malcolm
Fair enough, but I thought that was something of a spamming post.
I’m open in all respects, but prefer to be a little bit choosy about who I send my e-mail address to.
I’m a naturist and an atheist, so you can imagine the flack I come in for from prudish and judgmental bible bashers. My favourite way to defend naturism again them is to tell them that, according to their bible, Adam and Eve were punished with shame for eating the forbidden fruit, and that as I feel no shame about being nude I therefore must have been forgiven by their god………. but they haven’t.
May 3rd, 2009 at 15:26
Pete
Thanks for your concern; it is a throw-away email address. I have used it to provoke the offended and marginalized xtians into some negative reaction that would be good publicity. Nobody has bitten – yet; nor any spam.
The postive support that I have had has reqlly gladdened my heart, so-to-speak.
If you would like to chat directly I am quite happy to let you have my everyday email address.
May 12th, 2009 at 3:09
TAM London Sold Out!
The James Randi Educational Foundation
are pleased – though a little shocked -
to announce that tickets for The Amaz!ng
Meeting London have sold out – in an hour!
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/jref-news/554-tam-london-sold-out.html
_____
May 12th, 2009 at 11:56
Is this proof that his psychic abilities aren’t there?
May 15th, 2009 at 14:43
Utah Atheists Get Positive Press
Hemant Mehta |Friendly Atheist
The growing number of atheists is only because a lot more
are willing to step up and say yeah, I don’t believe it.
http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/05/14/utah-atheists-get-positive-press/
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May 20th, 2009 at 0:33
Regarding the Cartoon on the home page…There are flaws in the message. Cupboards DO have room for other drawers. The BIBLE (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) Manual does allow for mistakes in our cupboards, it doesn’t say to reject people as the cartoon portrayed. Dysfunctional parents (regardless of which Manual they use) can seem “possessed”, and bullying parents are terrified that your cupboard will change (whether they are right or wrong), but it is not the Manual’s fault. We are humans and we often don’t know which manual to use, but we ALL know that there is a CREATOR and that he loves and accepts ALL cupboards. It’s people (not the manual or Creator) that reject and hurt others. This cartoon is obviously written by people who feel rejected by parents and they are using the “no God” belief to try to convince others that their life should include a “different” cupboard and no God. Unfortunately, some cupboard makers (some religious denominations) twist the truth and force One cupboard on people, they are hypocritical. But, the Creator (God) is one in the same and loves all cupboards, no matter the color, size, and type. I do not support the Athiest Bus in the Americas, just as I do not support hypocritical bible-twisting crazy people who do more harm than good to the good word of the manual. May all those who think there’s absolutely no God or creator, have a second to ponder their belief the last second of their life so that they might see the vision and enter into heaven to meet their loved ones. Enjoy life. Live every day as if it were your last, and live your last day as if you will live forever in heaven or hell. Ask forgiveness of sins your last moment of breath and I think the creator will forgive and accept you. What could it hurt?
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:36
@Tally Smith:
“… but we ALL know that there is a CREATOR …”
What qualifies you to speak on behalf of the entire human race?
Please provide evidence to support your ridiculous assertion.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:11
@Tally Smith:
Do you believers go about “sinning” all over the place in the knowledge you can always ask “forgiveness”?
I don’t want to sound arrogant but, sincerely, I can’t remember the last time I did some “sinning” nor exactly what it was.
May 24th, 2009 at 17:35
@Tally Smith-What culd it hurt? Well, it’s a waste of time if God does not exist, or does not care wether you “sin” or not. Since there is no reason to believe that the God of the Bible is any more real than any other, and since God has never been the answer for any question we solved so far, worshipping seems pretty pointless. Asking for forgiveness when one is about to die is even worse: I have other things more urgent to do, such as spending quality time with the people I love. And even IF he exists, he would know I am an unbeliever, so my repentence would be hypocritical. I would be acting out of fear of punishment, or self interest, not out of any moral consideration. If that’s okay for this hypothetical God, then he does not deserve to be worshipped, plain and simple. Until I die, I will rather try to act morally according to the effects my actions have on this world, seeking to be a good person towards my fellow human beings.
May 25th, 2009 at 6:26
Actually, the point of the cartoon is that people don’t make their cupboards according to the bible, they make them the same way the people who taught them religion made theirs, which is not how the bible says.
Look, for instance, at the part, Matthew 11 was it? where the bible says you should not call a priest Father. Many christians will not believe that page exists unless you show it to them.
The parents in the cartoon got given their instruction manuals, but they didn’t read it. They didn’t need to, the priest summarised it into a few simple soundbites and told them that was all they needed.
It’s like when legal action was taken against Neil Gaiman for a comic depicting a very sick rape and murder scene. It was eventually dropped because the comic was entirely true to the section of the bible it was retelling, but all those people didn’t know that.
Oh, and I thought people might be interested in http://www.thenationalstudent.co.uk/pages/uk_news/atheists_hit_with_death_threats.html
May 28th, 2009 at 14:56
More TAM London tickets available!
Rather than simply do a first-come-first-served offer,
which can be biased towards some time zones over others,
we have opted instead to have an email lottery.
JREF
http://tinyurl.com/oc9j9b
_____
May 29th, 2009 at 13:02
hey this is so cool…i am an atheist i just stumbled on this site..i want some friends with me ,when i get to the no ..there after.I totaly believe” religion is the opiate of the masses(marx)…and my intellect will not accept evil (there are evil people tho).I think religion was a social control mechanism..to divide or conquer..and still remains as is.
I do think there is a dimension out of my experience….but it aint no god ,by labeling beliefs we have had so many wars…all total political bullshit.talk to me..sue
June 1st, 2009 at 20:05
“In the beginning Man created God”. and that’s all you really need to say. To me its so obvious I can’t be bothered to argue with the godbotherers.
It is a puzzle how otherwise rational, educated people can subscribe to a belief in a supernatural being. However I think it won’t be too long before advances in neuroscience produces an answer.
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:08
The video is great,definetely speaks the truth
This Atheist Bus Campaign Is Great!
June 3rd, 2009 at 17:25
Moral Maze
Michael Buerk is joined by Claire Fox,
Melanie Phillips, Clifford Longley and
Kenan Malik to consider what has become
of moral authority.
Wednesday, 3 June 2009, 20:00 – BBC Radio 4
Saturday, 6 June 2009, 22:15 – BBC Radio 4
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00kpw9n
_____
June 4th, 2009 at 6:21
Simon Singh is appealing!
Sign up now to keep the
libel laws out of science!
James Randi Educational Foundation
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/585-simon-singh-is-appealing.html
_____
June 9th, 2009 at 8:42
Hello everyone,
I will be attending a discussion in the Faculty of Divinity of Marmara University in Istanbul on a doctorate thesis claiming having refuted evolution.
I would appreciate any help regarding some questions I could forward to the “doctor” showing that his claim is wrong.
I know I should have outlined the claims to ask for such a help, but I am not very good at science and I take it that most of you must already know these main points of controversy.
Thanking you,
June 9th, 2009 at 23:52
There is a similar campaign held by the Swedish Humanists. It started yesterday and the name is “Gud finns nog inte” (God probably does not exist). There will be advertising in the major Swedish newspapers and in the Stockholm underground.
Link: http://www.gudfinnsnoginte.se/
June 13th, 2009 at 23:37
I didn’t know that someone would want to encourage people to not have faith in something truly amazing. I mean, I don’t think I could ever be atheist. I wasn’t raised in a strong Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, or Catholic enviornment, but religion is one of the best things in my life.
Constantly having something to rely on. I’ve witnessed somethings that people way beyond my years didn’t know existed. I’m not here to convert any atheists into believers… I respect atheism. Actually, it makes a hell of a lot more since than Christianity. But, that’s why I love being faithful. It sounds so ridiculous that it’s believable and truthful. And it frightens me, it gives me thrill and a sense of protection. I’m not exactly a bible-hugger, and I don’t go to church very often, but still…
It just hurts my heart to be aware of the pushing of people not having faith–in anything at all. As in religious stands…
June 17th, 2009 at 23:06
What to Buy an Atheist for Christmas?
The Atheist’s Guide to Christmas
Humorous and irreverent tips on surviving
the Christmas season compiled by comedy
writer and journalist Ariane Sherine.
http://www.yourchristmasgifts.co.uk/atheist-christmas/
_____
June 23rd, 2009 at 18:42
Little Atoms next guest
- Ariane Sherine
The moving finger having writ,
for mp3 – click .
http://www.littleatoms.com/guests.htm
_____
June 23rd, 2009 at 19:47
@Tia
It’s not a case of turning true believers away from their religion, not an easy task anyway, but one of letting the doubters know there are others like them out here.
Many people follow a religion because it’s a family tradition, or they were bullied into it, as is seen with the threats of everlasting damnation, which prompted this whole ‘Atheist Bus Campaign’ in the first place.
In parts of America the coming of secular choice has brought many doubters out, even though they live in the religious south and have and all manner of threats made against them, including some very Christian death threats.
June 25th, 2009 at 2:05
@Tia
We atheists have lots and lots of beliefs – the beauty of nature, the rewards of enquiry, materialism (not a dirty word, but the product of science that you obviously will endorse as a daily user of its results, results that have so improved your life and wellbeing over that of your ancestors) and, of course, our limited but increasing knowledge of the origins of our universe.
As the late and lamented Douglas Adams said “Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
June 25th, 2009 at 13:42
I’m not wanting to offend anyone who created this cartoon but it had the feel of a Hitler Youth production. I was an Atheist for 18 months – 2 years. This was a cursed time for me and I’m still paying for it. I’m a guy who likes to have fun and I love my kids. I’m involved with Karate, boating, working out, dance and many other things ie. normal person not a fanatic. I hope and pray that the the host of this website and sponsors don’t lose their personal relationships but do change and offer a positive message based on biblical principles. I’ll pray for you.
June 25th, 2009 at 16:16
FreethoughtAction
for a rational America
You might think you are the only nonreligious person
in America. Not true! – tens of millions of your fellow
Americans are not religious. Together we can help America
evolve into a more rational, less superstitious society.
http://www.freethoughtaction.org/
_____
June 25th, 2009 at 19:22
Little Atoms Radio Show: Ariane Sherine
Friday 26th June 2009 – 19:00–19:30
Little Atoms is a talk show about ideas.
Produced and presented by Neil Denny and
Padraig Reidy, each show features a guest
from the worlds of science, journalism,
politics, academia, human rights or
the arts in conversation.
Resonance 104.4 FM central London UK
Resonance Listen on-line
http://resonancefm.com/listen
_ _ _
The moving finger having writ, click
[Previous Guests] for MP3 download.
http://www.littleatoms.com/guests.htm
_____
June 26th, 2009 at 7:22
@Erron Wright
You’re not offending anyone, what right do we have to be offended, whereas you have the right to believe or not believe, OR DO YOU? Sounds like you are a doubter, but were coerced into following religion again.
Surely freedom of choice is more important, but in parts of America people are frightened to come out and declare their atheism publicly, now that is an atrocity on par with slavery, forcing someone against their will is never right.
The cartoon, do you mean ‘Instruction manual for life’? How you equate that to Hitler Youth productions is beyond me, I think it clearly shows the intolerance of religions in accepting other lines of thought.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:37
Erron
You ask us to follow biblical principles as you do; therefore, I really do fear for your children, they may be in great danger. My children are reasonably safe since there is no chance that I will kill them for disobedience or receive messages to sacrifice them or sell them into slavery.
I am very proud of thje fact that my list of “commandments” exceed those of the bible by at least 500.
What brand of christian religion do you follow?
June 26th, 2009 at 7:53
Hi Erron Wright, thanks for the comment.
Most atheists lead lives according to the ‘biblical principles’ of treating others with consideration: no stealing, lying, hurting or murdering. We just don’t bother with the devoting-our-lives-to-invisible-sky-fairies bit.
You may have missed the point of our message: you can lead a positive, happy life without submitting to an imaginary god or cash-hungry pastor.
Christians believe in negative things like talking snakes, zombies rising from the dead, demons and threats of eternal damnation in lakes of fire. Some even believe the the Earth was created about 6,500 years ago, and that televangelists tell the truth.
In any case, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Christians are more likely to end up in prison than non-believers. It’s a shame more of them don’t live by their own ‘biblical principles’.
You have yourself some fun, Erron, but watch out for those pesky talking snakes!
June 26th, 2009 at 8:02
Oh, one more thing Erron, you mentioned the Hitler Youth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URUOSXJrx8c
Peace to you and yours.
June 28th, 2009 at 10:04
@Erron Wright-This must have been the dumbest analogy I have ever read from a believer in a long time. How is that cartoon anything like some a Nazi propaganda video? Seriously! Can we apply Godwin’s law and say you just lost the debate you started and any kind of credibility in the meantime? I think so.
As for atheists’s morals, we have them, they are judged by the effects our actions have on other people, not by some arbitrary rule given by an hypothetical divine master. We do not have the believer’s faith to excuse any behavior that would be immoral and we do not act morally for fear of punishment or hoping for a reward. If anything, this is a more moral position than yours. It is certainly the selfless one. And if a God exists and wants to punish us for not believing, then he is an immoral God and does not deserve to be worshipped whatsoever.
June 29th, 2009 at 0:17
Just saw my first atheist bus sign, it read, “You don’t need god to be good”
I LOVE IT! I’m tired of everyone assuming that atheists are devil worshipping chicken sacrificing sickos!
Thank you for helping us to be more open
July 2nd, 2009 at 15:10
A directory of divine misogyny
Johann Hari |New Statesman
Review: Does God Hate Women?
Ophelia Benson & Jeremy Stangroom
http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2009/07/women-god-stangroom-benson
_____
July 4th, 2009 at 16:27
Camp Quest under attack
The thought of 24 children spending less than
a week in a secular summer camp has set certain
sections of the media into a panic.
NSS Newsline
http://www.secularism.org.uk/camp-quest-under-attack.html
_____
July 4th, 2009 at 16:32
Sir Terry Pratchett speaks to
the BHA about assisted dying
British Humanist Association
http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/311
_____
July 4th, 2009 at 16:45
Sharia Law or ‘One Law For All’?
Think-tank Civitas concludes that Sharia
courts should not be recognised in Britain.
NSS Newsline
http://www.secularism.org.uk/think-tank-concludes-that-sharia.html
_____
July 5th, 2009 at 17:11
Father Ted Creators Back Challenge to Law
The creators of the Father Ted television
series have denounced Ireland’s proposed
blasphemy laws as”insanity” and pledged
to support a campaign to repeal them.
http://blasphemy.ie/2009/07/05/father-ted-creators-back-challenge-to-la/
_____
July 7th, 2009 at 12:12
Digested read:
The Case for God
by Karen Armstrong
John Crace |The Guardian
God is transcendent, clever clogs. So
we obviously can’t understand him. Duh!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jul/07/karen-armstrong-case-for-god
_____
July 7th, 2009 at 16:50
BBC Radio 4 Law in Action
Irish religious institutions’ child
abuse on an industrial scale – Clive
Coleman examines a scheme set up to
provide justice and compensation for
victims. With link to BBC News report:
UK Irish abuse victims ‘losing out’.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lgj39
_____
July 8th, 2009 at 15:25
Every secondary school
to be given Dawkins DVD
Every secondary school in England and Wales
will receive a free DVD by renowned atheist
Richard Dawkins to celebrate the anniversary
of Darwin’s Origin of the Species.
politics.co.uk
http://tinyurl.com/kp83lk
_____
July 8th, 2009 at 21:09
BBC Radio 4 Moral Maze
Michael Buerk chairs a debate on the moral questions
behind the week’s news. Claire Fox, Michael Portillo,
Clifford Longley and Kenan Malik cross-examine witnesses.
Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali has said that homosexuals should
change and repent their sin. The 2008 Criminal Justice and
Immigration Act created the criminal offence of ‘incitement
to hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation’. But after
lobbying from religious groups, the government was forced
to accept a Lords amendment that allowed a freedom of speech
defence. Bishops in the Lords are now fighting the government’s
latest attempts to get that defence dropped. Where should we
draw the line between religious conscience and freedom of
speech? Should your faith allow you the freedom to challenge
and question the way we live, or is this a thinly-disguised
mask for intolerance and prejudice?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lh227
_____
July 9th, 2009 at 23:26
Should skeptics send their
children to church on Sundays?
John Loftus |Debunking Christianity
http://tinyurl.com/my2kos
_____
July 12th, 2009 at 16:45
Irish Catholics go
online to lose religion
Gabrielle Monaghan |The Times
A website is acting as a one-stop shop for disgruntled
Catholics who want to officially quit their religion,
especially in the wake of the Ryan report on child
abuse in religious institutions.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6689482.ece
_____
July 13th, 2009 at 16:11
BBC Trust considering non-religious
Thought for the Day |John Plunkett
Today’s Thought for the Day slot could be
opened up to secular and humanist views,
says BBC Radio 4 controller Mark Damazer
The Guardian
http://tinyurl.com/nhcnhl
_____
July 13th, 2009 at 17:32
Blasphemy law a return
to middle ages – Dawkins
Alison Healy |Irish Times
The new blasphemy law will send Ireland back
to the middle ages, and is wretched, backward
and uncivilised, Prof Richard Dawkins has said.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0713/1224250543694.html
_____
July 13th, 2009 at 18:10
Atheist Songs – Ivan Cronan
Songs to inspire the atheist in you
Share your Spotify playlists with
the world and discover new music
http://www.sharemyplaylists.com/atheist-songs/
_____
July 13th, 2009 at 18:21
Great list of atheist songs, except it doesn’t appear to include Imagine by John Lennon.
Then there is this little gem on Youtube, really catchy too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9bMi4s_yOE
July 14th, 2009 at 20:57
New hope for an end to religious
monopoly on Thought for the Day
New hope was expressed this week that
the long-running campaign to open up
the BBC programme Thought for the Day
to non-religious voices may be about
to make a breakthrough.
NSS Newsline
http://www.secularism.org.uk/new-hope-for-an-end-to-religious1.html
_____
July 17th, 2009 at 13:03
I’m going to start a new campaign entitled:
“Richard Dawkins is God”
That’ll completely settle the “is there a god” argument once and for all so that we can all enjoy our lives without writing endless books about it or reading them…….
July 20th, 2009 at 14:30
BHA promotes iTunes download
of the song ‘None Of The Above’
The British Humanist Association is pleased
to support the launch of a new “humanist song”,
None Of The Above by The Strawheads.
politics.co.uk
http://tinyurl.com/kwls8c
_____
July 20th, 2009 at 15:15
Atheist bus signs in Austria
Go say hello!
Pharyngula
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/07/atheist_bus_signs_in_austria.php
_____
July 21st, 2009 at 15:21
Atheists Choose ‘De-Baptism’
to Renounce Childhood Faith
Beliefnet
http://blog.beliefnet.com/news/2009/07/atheists-choose-de-baptism-to.php
_____
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:18
Little Atoms Radio Show: Dr Evan Harris MP
Friday 24th July 2009 – 19:00–19:30 BST
Little Atoms is a talk show about ideas.
Produced and presented by Neil Denny and
Padraig Reidy, each show features a guest
from the worlds of science, journalism,
politics, academia, human rights or
the arts in conversation.
Resonance 104.4 FM central London UK
Resonance Listen on-line
http://resonancefm.com/listen
_ _ _
The moving finger having writ, click
[Previous Guests] for MP3 download.
http://www.littleatoms.com/guests.htm
_____
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:32
Just curious…
If you profess a disbelief in God why mention him and the prophets of Religion (Jesus etc) so often?
I do not believe in ghosts for example and as such I do not mention them 50 times a day.
Also – isn’t Atheism dependent on peoples belief? Without a God that you claim to not believe in you would have no belief at all..
So at the end of the day you have yet another belief, another religion if you will.
Atheism boggles my mind.
And at the end of the day there is a God, a god we all know about, think about, are controlled by and were given commandments by…
Death.
You know it’s there, you know his commandments – and if you mess up you pay and at the end of it all believe in him or not he still gets you.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:14
@Murphy
If you’d looked through the web site and read it’s aims you’d know that we are sick to the back teeth of being told we’re doomed to everlasting damnation and the eternal fires of hell. It seems it’s OK for religious cranks to threaten us, and use fear and intimidation in advertisement to swell its ranks, but the moment an atheist message appears it’s considered immoral and in some curious way as wrong.
The aim isn’t to have people give up their faith, it is more a case of encouraging those who waver or those afraid to come out of the closet. The message is that we are not alone, we are many and the ranks of the disbelievers are growing. We can now speak as one and tell the religious cranks that we are tired of their threats.
I personally don’t mention god 50 times a day, but bible thumpers do, as do their organisations, now we have an organisation that supports atheists and provide succor.
I’ve no doubt that you see a message from jesus and/or god several times a day, but they go unnoticed because you’re used to them or agree with them, yet a single concerted atheist campaign gets you spouting off.
Death is the end of individual existence, it isn’t a god that anyone worships, and it certainly doesn’t control my life, it is just a fact of life.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:20
Nicely said Pete. In a nutshell; which is more than can be said for some of the god-bothering posts on this site.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:50
The National Secular Society aren’t
secular – they’re atheist bigots
Ed West |Daily Telegraph
http://tinyurl.com/nx5v28
_____
July 24th, 2009 at 17:36
Opus Dei political candidate tries to
guilt trip his critics into silence
Terry Sanderson |NSS Newsline
The SNP candidate in the Glasgow North East by-election,
David Kerr, was revealed this week to be a member of the
extremist Catholic organisation Opus Dei.
http://www.secularism.org.uk/opus-dei-political-candidate-tri.html
_____
July 28th, 2009 at 1:12
Atheist bus ads ‘pathetic:’ Philosopher
Randy Boswell |The Windsor Star
Canada’s most renowned philosopher has weighed in provocatively
on the debate surrounding the “atheist bus” campaign, describing
as “pathetic” the cross-Canada advertising effort to promote the
idea that “there’s probably no God.”
http://www.windsorstar.com/Atheist+pathetic+Philosopher/1834362/story.html
_____
July 29th, 2009 at 14:58
Simon Singh’s chiropractic
piece published en masse
Paul Sims |New Humanist
http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2009/07/simon-singhs-chirorpactic-piece.html
_____
July 31st, 2009 at 16:07
Simon Singh loses first attempt at
permission to appeal |Jack of Kent
http://tinyurl.com/lrlbod
_____
August 1st, 2009 at 16:50
Why should it cost so much to join this site do you regard your selfs as eltists? I am an athiest who believes in evelution abhores religion and thinks it is responsable for the worlds problems.
I am happy your trying to show there is no God but I would like it more if I could join you but I am a pensioner who cannot afford to save.
August 7th, 2009 at 11:00
Christians: Do you defend your
own freedom? |Richard Wade
Friendly Atheist
http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/08/06/christians-do-you-defend-your-own-freedom/
_____
August 9th, 2009 at 11:17
@ Mr Reason.
Thank you for your comment and welcome to the site!
Please be assured there is no cost to join this campaign and make comments on the discussions. No pressure has been put on anyone to contribute to the Atheist Campaign – it’s free!
August 9th, 2009 at 15:36
Interesting comment about you wanting to make Richard Dawkins a god.
Question: Why doesn’t Dawkins spend all his time writing books and giving seminars on the flying spagetti monster? Allegedly, the flying spagetti monster doesn’t exist either.
I find it bizarre that Dawkins has made an entire career out of chasing something that doesn’t exist. Dont you?
Its almost as if God DOES exist and Dawkins wants to destroy Him. I think that’s a better explanation.
Evolution is the cause of wars, murders and hatred for one another. Thank goodnes its being destroyed as we speak:
http://www.dissentfromdarwin.com
The world needs to be set free from the kind of evil Darwin espouses:
“The weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.”
We need more Jesus, zero evolution.
August 9th, 2009 at 16:25
@misbubby
Its nice to see this campaign is still getting under the skin of the evolution-deniers.
You are welcome to have just as much Jesus as suits you. But evolution isn’t optional. Its out there. Its a fact beyond any reasonable scientific doubt and no matter how much you want it, it can’t be banished!
August 9th, 2009 at 18:44
Dear Quedula, You said:
“Evolution is not optional.”
Sure it is. Its been useless since its inception. It hasn’t helped medicine, rocket science, or morality. Can you think of a single thing it is useful for other than justifying murder and genocide? Hitler and Ahmedinijad find it very useful. How about you? How do you use it?
Science, paleantology, and physics on the other hand, have been very useful. they given us cosmology, genetics and the fossil record.
Jesus has given us forgiveness and salvation.
Lousiana stopped protecting the Darwinism last month. This trend will continue because Americans love freedom more than anything else. This includes academic freedom.
August 9th, 2009 at 19:23
I don’t use evolution – it just IS. It wasn’t invented, it was discovered as a scientific explanation of how life has got to where it is. Evolution produced Hitler and Ahmedinijab. (As it produced you and me) I’m not sure what you mean by saying they “used” it.
Incidentally, before the growth of scientific knowledge, the world was a much more dangerous place for human-beings. 10,000 year ago the chance that a man would die at the hands of another was at least 15%, in some tribes 60%. In the 20th century, notwithstanding all the wars, it was less than 1%.
August 9th, 2009 at 19:24
Hi imissbubby
Is this an example of your logic-defying beliefs and do you deny that there may be a tennie-weenie problem with the dating?
P Z Myers visits Ken Ham’s Creation Museum.
It’s a small thing, but it’s representative of the bizarre pseudoscience in the world of the Creation “Museum”. There was a room with a small collection of dinosaur models and skeleton casts, and they each had little panels describing the specimen…just like a real museum! Then you read them, and the weirdness sinks in. “Diet after the Fall” specifies “carnivore (meat eater)” — that’s because everything was a vegetarian before Adam and Eve ate the apple, since there was no death anywhere in the universe (which implies, apparently, that in their version of Christian theology, plants are dead). That’s not the weirdest thing, though.
No, the part that I found most amusing is the dating. An example of this is a Ceratosaur; it says that this is from the Upper Jurassic (~2348 BC). There were other specimens from other geological eras, and they would say “Upper Cretaceous (~2348 BC)” and “Lower Cretaceous (~2348 BC)”. I’m sure that if they had some Cambrian specimens there, they would have also said “(~2348 BC)”.
Why does the geology even matter to them if they’re just going to ignore it all and compress everything into one year, a year given with such remarkable specificity?
Even if you don’t care about the geology, what about the history? All but 7 people are exterminated in 2348 BC, by their accounting, yet we know that in that century, we have the establishment of the Akkadian empire in Mesopotamia, the sixth dynasty in Egypt, the founding of major cities in the Indus valley and Korea…we have archaeological and historical records that show business as usual, with no one noting a massive annihilation of the human race.
The whole “museum” is like that — it’s a succession of assertions that flout the evidence, but does so in a style that is simply parroted from legitimate museums. Substance is completely lacking.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/08/a_little_taste_of_the_strangen.php
August 9th, 2009 at 20:48
Quedula, you make a very good point about ‘getting under the skin of evolution-deniers’.
Narrow minded believers like Imissbubby hate the idea that people might have independent thought away from the constraints of an old discredited book. A bit like the Taleban, Imissbubby would have us all on our knees worshipping some imaginary god under pain of death.
Fortunately, free-thinking people have a spirit that cannot be crushed so easily as the sheep that follow various religions.
Intolerance breeds ignorance, and Imissbubby’s comments demonstrate this.
August 9th, 2009 at 23:14
Dear Queldela: You said
“I don’t use evolution – it just IS. It wasn’t invented, it was discovered as a scientific explanation of how life has got to where it is. ”
———–And it was written by a man who had a degree in what, exactly? With no knowledge of DNA and genetics, he tested his hypothesis how, exactly?
“Evolution produced Hitler and Ahmedinijab. (As it produced you and me) I’m not sure what you mean by saying they “used” it.”
———–Darwin espouces that when another race threatens yours, it should be eliminated. Hitler and Ahmedinijad are using Darwin’s life lessons to justify their behavior.
“Incidentally, before the growth of scientific knowledge, the world was a much more dangerous place for human-beings. 10,000 year ago the chance that a man would die at the hands of another was at least 15%, in some tribes 60%. In the 20th century, notwithstanding all the wars, it was less than 1%.”
————Today’s gamma rays are much more intense than they were over last 1000’s of years. That’s why everything is in a state of decay. Law of Thermodynamics #2.
August 9th, 2009 at 23:36
“Narrow minded believers like Imissbubby hate the idea that people might have independent thought”
————Which independent thought do I hate?
“the constraints of an old discredited book.”
————If you think modern science is constraining I suppose your life is your party and you can cry if you want to. ps) You might discredit the Bible but its certainly not scholars, historians or archeologists agreeing with you.
“A bit like the Taleban, Imissbubby would have us all on our knees worshipping some imaginary god under pain of death.”
————I don’t subscribe to coerced belief. Neither did Jesus.
“Fortunately, free-thinking people have a spirit that cannot be crushed so easily as the sheep that follow various religions.”
————-We’re all able to think freely. It looks like what you really mean by free-thinking is is “liberal” or “secular” or “godless.” You’re free to believe in a crumbling dynasty of disconnected intellectuals and doctrines of murderous genocide. I’m free to believe in the omnipotent, omniscience, immutable Creator of the universe and Savior of the world. It looks like there’s room for both of us in the world. ps) God loves you right now even though you won’t acknowledge Him.
“Intolerance breeds ignorance, and Imissbubby’s comments demonstrate this.”
————-I don’t follow your logic. What does this conversation have to do with tolerance? I believe Dallas is in Texas and you don’t. This is not an example of intolerance; we just don’t agree.
August 10th, 2009 at 0:11
Hello again imissbubby
Your ignorance of science seems to be unlimited.
Science is about observation and Darwin was a very slow, careful and conscientious observer who took many decade to formulate conclusions. Qualifications are irrelevant; Darwin became a consumate scientist by his dedication to accurate observation, testing and experimentaion. His conclusions in “On the Origin of Species” have since been corroborated by DNA and fossil evidence. Evolution is the best explanation that we have for the life forms that exist and have existed. It is accepted by all but a tiny number of scientists and even by the vatican.
Not one shred of evidence exists for creation or intelligent design.
Imissbubby, do please leave the dark ages and join us in the enlightened 21st century.
August 10th, 2009 at 4:32
Dear Malcolm: You said:
“Science is about observation”
————–and Testing. Darwin never tested his theory. What he knew about the cell is galaxies away from what we know today. He didn’t have the technology to understand what a complicated machine just a single cell is.
“and Darwin was a very slow, careful and conscientious observer who took many decade to formulate conclusions.”
————–Darwin had a degree in exactly what? He made his observations as a college student in his early 20’s on a 5 year boat ride. He knew nothing about science. He concocted a story when he came back about what he saw. I know he was rich and his family had a high position in society. He was also a 3rd generation evolutionist, Whig.
“Qualifications are irrelevant;”
————-Really! Do you really believe that?
“Darwin became a consumate scientist by his dedication to accurate observation, testing and experimentaion.”
————–He tested nothing. He made up a story that his own contemporaries (Lyell, Huxley and Hooker) all parted company with him on. Darwin needed to stay relevant in society when he came back.
“His conclusions in “On the Origin of Species” have since been corroborated by DNA and fossil evidence.”
————–What science has proven is that descent with modification does not exist. And the fossil record shows the abrupt appearance of man on the planet in full form. Molecular biology has proven speciation cannot occur even in single cell bacteria that replicate every 18 minutes.
“Evolution is the best explanation that we have for the life forms that exist and have existed.”
———–It may have been until the DNA molecule was decoded by Francis Crick. Many scientists after that discovery repudiated their theory of chance chemistry from primordial soup.
“It is accepted by all but a tiny number of scientists and even by the vatican.”
———–1000+ is not a tiny number of scientists.
“Not one shred of evidence exists for creation or intelligent design.”
———–A single cell is more complicated than a Saturn V. The biggest puzzle has been the origin of biological information. The building blocks of DNA are arranged in a specific sequence by biological information. They cannot arrange themselves in long information bearing molecules like DNA and RNA. The only way that biological information got inside that cell was through Intelligence. In a recent experiment, scientist proved these amino acids could not arrange themselves; it required the scientist to intervene. The Stanley Urey experiments also proved this. Self-replication also depends on biological infomation and this confirms that intelligence (ID) is the only way by which information arises. It requires a Mind.
August 10th, 2009 at 7:43
I simply cannot believe that anyone can be so deluded, I won’t waste my time trying to explain the errors of this persons delusion, they are just too far gone.
The other thing to consider is that we may have a troll in out midst, some of their comments have been so far off the mark as to be deliberately contentious.
Just a couple of points numbskull, Darwin wrote ABOUT evolution, he didn’t create it. Some of Darwin’s theories have been expanded upon, his book does contain errors, but subsequent scholars have ADDED to the well of human knowledge by writing other books. Our deluded friend meanwhile continues to cite a 2000 year old book as un-erring and un-improvable.
Flat Earth?
Sun revolves around Earth?
Jesus was the Peter Popoff of his time.
August 10th, 2009 at 17:35
Dear Pete, You said:
“Just a couple of points numbskull, Darwin wrote ABOUT evolution, he didn’t create it.”
————-Yes. This wasn’t Darwin’s theory. It was part of his families value system. That is why I mentioned he was a 3rd generation evolutionist. His grandfather, Erasmus Darwin, was a propounder of “transmutationism” which was evolution by another name. Myths of this sort have been floating around since about 3 B.C. Darwin panicked and threw “Origin of the Species” out there before anyone else could become famous for it. Many people, at that time, were writing identitical papers. If Darwin hadn’ published it, someone else would’ve done it. There was nothing special or new about it, but most people didn’t know that.
“Some of Darwin’s theories have been expanded upon, his book does contain errors, but subsequent scholars have ADDED to the well of human knowledge by writing other books.”
————–Yes. In fact, they’ve written entirely different theories because Darwinism is so lacking. Don’t worry, Pete. You can continue to be a atheist as science topples Darwinism. At that point you may want to change the name of your affliation from “atheist” to something like, “the bright ones.” Or “Brights”, for short.
“Our deluded friend meanwhile continues to cite a 2000 year old book as un-erring and un-improvable.
————–The Bible is not a science book. It is however, the most unique book on the planet! Written over a 1500 year span, over 40 generations, by 40 different authors over 3 continents and in 3 different languages — all written harmoniously on 100’s of different topics. 25,000 manuscripts across 3 different continents. Ancient literature was rarely translated into other languages. It puts any other work of antiquity to shame. The next closest would be The Illiad with only has 643 manuscripts found to date. To be skeptical of the Bible means you’d have to throw out every other work of antiquity. Check out John Rylands Libary in England, British Museum, the Bodner Library in World Literature, Beatty Museum in Dublin.
“Flat Earth? Sun revolves around Earth? Jesus was the Peter Popoff of his time.”
————–The Bible doesn’t say the earth was flat or the Sun revolved around the Earth. It seems you are criticizing a work you’ve never even read. Your comments are very similar to other atheists I’ve met who parrot what they hear their other angry, uninformed friends say; mostly name calling, no logic.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:58
Isa11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Rev7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
August 10th, 2009 at 19:15
@imissbubby
You show me a mountain from which you can see ALL of the Earth!
“The devil took him [Jesus] up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them.”
- Matthew 4:8
Galileo was charged with heresy by the Vatican for his theory that the sun was the centre of the solar system, in conflict with the unerring word [sic] of the bible.
* I Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
* Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm…”
* Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable…”
* Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
* Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”
There are even Christians to this very day who believe that the Earth is the centre of the universe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X1isrPVtlo
So which Christians are right, the flat Earthers, or an enlightened Christian like you?
The problem is that, over the centuries, as science proved the bible to be flawed it has divided Christianity into those that accept new discoveries, and those that refuse to accept that the bible could be wrong.
The bible compiled by scholars, don’t make me laugh, it was written by story tellers, and translated, corrupted and misinterpreted by many over the centuries. As a book of science and education, it has been superseded by advances in understanding of our surroundings.
Scientists live with the fact that their hypothesis may be disproved, either in the short term, or the long term. If Darwin were alive today he would be amazed at how his work has moved forward .
Darwin’s work was completed a decade before he published, but fear of backlash from the church prevented him from publishing. He finally published when he found that someone else was about to publish his works, but Darwin’s was better and gained widespread recognition by the scholars of the time.
I’m quite happy with the knowledge that the Earth is comprised of elements of the periodic table, and that they came together in a cosmic reaction. I’m quite happy in the knowledge that when my life ends, there is no more.
You differ from the religious that I’ve encountered before, in that you haven’t, as yet, threatened me with hellfire and everlasting damnation, the very thing that prompted Ariane to start this whole ABC in the first place.
August 10th, 2009 at 19:24
@imissbubby
I don’t think many atheists will have any difficulty in agreeing that the bible is, in its way, a pretty unique book. Some passages are unbelievably weird. What they would like explained however is what was it about its authors (or the time they lived in) that made them especially susceptible to “divine” revelation. Supposing I or you or the pope for example have a particularly vivid dream that we could interpret as a message from “god” isn’t that as equally valid as a 2000 year old one ?
August 10th, 2009 at 20:09
@quedula
but also @imissbubby
Peter Popoff claims to hear the word of god, as do many televangelists in their fund raising TV infomecials, so why does their word not appear in the bible?
As quedula points out, the bible hasn’t been updated in many years, whereas a good scientific journal would be updated as knowledge is amassed.
August 10th, 2009 at 20:24
Dear Pete: You quoted scripture:
“The devil took him [Jesus] up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them.”
————–Are you aware that the Bible was written in different literary forms? One of the literary forms common during that time was poetic/dramatic to make a point. The point of this scripture was that Jesus was tempted by the devil with power. The reason it was written with such vivid language was to make a dramatic point of just how big the package was the devil was offering Jesus in exchange for His devotion.
“Galileo was charged with heresy by the Vatican for his theory that the sun was the centre of the solar system, in conflict with the unerring word [sic] of the bible.”
—————The Vatican also includes in their doctrines, traditions that God never imposed on anybody. They also included in their Bible, ancient epistles and letters that are known to be fraudulent.
” I Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
* Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm…”
* Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable…”
* Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
* Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”
—————The point is to think about how solid the Earth is and how much moreso, the Person who made it. Not sure what your point is.
“There are even Christians to this very day who believe that the Earth is the centre of the universe.”
—————-That’s not my problem. There are atheists that believe child molesting is okay. Is that your problem? Should that reflect poorly on you?
“So which Christians are right, the flat Earthers, or an enlightened Christian like you?”
————–I believe the Bible is Word of God. Science hasn’t proven that wrong.
“The problem is that, over the centuries, as science proved the bible to be flawed it has divided Christianity into those that accept new discoveries, and those that refuse to accept that the bible could be wrong.”
————–Well here’s the problem, Pete. Until DNA was decoded (1950sih) atheists would’ve said Christians were stupid because the only socially acceptable belief in science was d-evolution. Now we know, there is no way Darwin’s theory could be right because molecular biology tells us its not possible and the fossil record tells us there’s no evidence. What can we learn from all this? That the Christians were stupid for only a period of time (1850-1948)?
“The bible compiled by scholars”
————–The Bible was compiled because the churches needed to know which books should be read, revered, and applied to their life because, as you know, the world was very hostile towards Christianity back then. (Burning them alive, throwing them to the lions, beheadings…) Secondly, Christianity was spreading so quickly there was a tremendous need to translate it into different languages. Missionaries could not translate a Bible that didn’t exist, so they needed to know which codexes and scrolls should be translated. They used five tests for inclusion: 1.) Was the person a spokesman for God? 2.) Was the writer backed up my miracles? Miracles (what a materilist would call “low probability”) were an act of God to confirm the writer. Miracles separated true prophets from false ones. 3.) Did the message tell the truth? The policy was “if in doubt, throw it out.” 4.) Was the message already with authority? In other words, if the message codex or scroll was not already transforming lives, then God was not behind it. The codex and scrolls didn’t get authority from being complied by the early church fathers. They already had it. 5.) Did the people of God accept it? If it was being used and recieved, it was considered “canonical.” Remember back then books were not ubiquitous. All the books/codex has to pass all 5 tests.
“don’t make me laugh, it was written by story tellers,”
——————They were recording history. This is why archeolgical evidence is so important. Archeology has never found one thing to contradict the Bible (unlike the Mormons.) Archeology doesn’t prove the Bible is the Word of God, but it does confirm its authenticity. The book of Luke for example lists 32 countries, 54 cities and 9 islands with not a single mistake.
“and translated,”
————–one time. From the Greek to the English. From the Hebrew to the English. From the Aramaic to the English. From the Greek to the Spanish, from the Hebrew to the Spanish, from the Aramaic to the Spanish, etc.
“corrupted”
————–What did it say before it was corrupted? What youre saying is simply not the evidence we have in history. Within 2 weeks of Jesus death & resurrection, 10,000 Jews had renounced their heritage and had changed the social structure (it is difficult for us in America to understand the significance of this.) Less than 20 years after Jesus’ death and resurrection, the first eye witness account was penned. From that first one written within 20 years, we have 25,000 original manuscripts across three different continents spanning hundreds and hundreds of years saying the same thing. Do you know how long after Alexander the Great’s death his first biography was written? More than 400 years after his death in 323 A.D. Why should I believe his biography? 400 years later??
“and misinterpreted by many over the centuries.”
————-Again, what youre saying is not based on the evidence we have all over the world. We have 25000 manuscripts corroborating the ones written within 20 of His death/resurrection. Do you know how long it takes for something to become a legend? More than 2 generations. There simply was not enough time for Jesus to have become a legend. Everything happened too fast. Now, we can get history delivered to us within 2 minutes after it happens. Back then, not so fast.
“As a book of science and education,”
————-The Bible is not a science book.
“it has been superseded by advances in understanding of our surroundings.”
————–Again, please give me one example.
“Scientists live with the fact that their hypothesis may be disproved, either in the short term, or the long term. If Darwin were alive today he would be amazed at how his work has moved forward .”
————–Not much has changed since Darwin wrote it. It wasn’t based on tested science and still isn’t. Ev
“Darwin’s work was completed a decade before he published, but fear of backlash from the church prevented him from publishing.”
—————It took him that long to write it. He didn’t release it faster because no one agreed with him. Everytime he tried to get one of his contemporaries to back him up, they either said, “There’s no way this is true” or “It could be true if…” as in the case with Asa Gray who brought it to Harvard in America.
“He finally published when he found that someone else was about to publish his works, but Darwin’s was better and gained widespread recognition by the scholars of the time.”
————-Only because Darwin was richer and his family name was more prestigious. There was nothing ingenious about it.
“I’m quite happy with the knowledge that the Earth is comprised of elements of the periodic table, and that they came together in a cosmic reaction.”
————–You seem to have an irrational level of faith in the powers of chance.
“I’m quite happy in the knowledge that when my life ends, there is no more. You differ from the religious that I’ve encountered before, in that you haven’t, as yet, threatened me with hellfire and everlasting damnation, the very thing that prompted Ariane to start this whole ABC in the first place.”
—————–Well, Ive enjoyed bantering with you, Pete. I like hearing what the atheists have to say. Have a great day. Miss Bubby.
August 10th, 2009 at 20:31
Quedela, You said:
“What they would like explained however is what was it about its authors (or the time they lived in) that made them especially susceptible to “divine” revelation.”
————–God picked whom He wanted ot.
“Supposing I or you or the pope for example have a particularly vivid dream that we could interpret as a message from “god” isn’t that as equally valid as a 2000 year old one ?”
————–After Jesus resurrected, He gave us the Holy Spirit that comes to live inside of us. He said that’s why it was better that He go back to the Father. In essence, He has delegated the Kingdom of God us. He has given for us to do something He could do better and easier.
If a believer has “vivid dream” its valid if it doesn’t conflict with the Bible. Joseph Smith is a good example of somone who had to run off and start his own religion because the Christians booted him out. Adultery 38 times over cannot be backed up with Scripture.
August 10th, 2009 at 20:36
Dear Pete,
“Peter Popoff claims to hear the word of god, as do many televangelists in their fund raising TV infomecials, so why does their word not appear in the bible?”
—————-There’s nothing else to add to the Bible. We have everything we need. What are we supposed to being doing now, 2000 years after Jesus died? What the Bible says to do until the end comes (Book of Revelation.)
—————-When you get really rooted and familiar with Scripture, you can easily spot someone who’s theology is whacked. You can either correct them or pray for them. Everyone is a work in progress and become Christ-like takes more a lifetime…more than a lifetime
“As quedula points out, the bible hasn’t been updated in many years, whereas a good scientific journal would be updated as knowledge is amassed.”
————–Again, the Bible is not a science book. Why would it have to be updated?
August 10th, 2009 at 20:55
@imissbubby
“There are atheists that believe child molesting is okay. Is that your problem? Should that reflect poorly on you?”
This is the only comment that rattled my cage, so I feel compelled to respond.
Are Catholic priests not Christians? Explain please, why a North American Catholic diocese had to file for bankruptcy to save itself from paying out millions in compensation to children molested by priests. Where is the goodness of Christianity, and what happened to the morality, the church was more concerned with saving it’s dollars than the souls of the victims.
Christianity has a long history of violence and immoral deeds, and it hasn’t changed one iota as far as I can see.
There are so many factions of Christianity now, and they all claim that THEY are the true Christians, just like you do in fact!
This man claims to be a christian, and claims to speak for god, is he right, or are you the righteous one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maeNk2itmMk
August 10th, 2009 at 21:29
imissbubby
“————–God picked whom He wanted to.”
So what you are saying is that some people were especially picked by god because they were especially picked by god.
Wow, that’s a good argument! Unanswerable. I give up.
August 10th, 2009 at 21:30
Dear Pete,
“There are atheists that believe child molesting is okay. Is that your problem? Should that reflect poorly on you?” This is the only comment that rattled my cage, so I feel compelled to respond. Are Catholic priests not Christians?”
————-They say they are.
“Explain please, why a North American Catholic diocese had to file for bankruptcy to save itself from paying out millions in compensation to children molested by priests. Where is the goodness of Christianity, and what happened to the morality, the church was more concerned with saving it’s dollars than the souls of the victims.”
————-I’m with you. My only comment on this is: God is not the one doing these things. Man/woman is doing this. Man is infinitely fallible and needs a Savior. In this situation, I would say our part is protect these, and any other children with any/every law enforcement agency with can get to listen.
“Christianity has a long history of violence and immoral deeds, and it hasn’t changed one iota as far as I can see.”
————–Its not just Christianity. Its Communism, Marxism, Islam, African Darfur witchcraft. Why? Because its not religion’s fault unless they are spewing murderous doctrine (Osama Bin Laden, Darwin). Its the individual’s fault. Some people don’t play golf well. Some people don’t do Christianity well. Its not Jesus fault. He came to stop all this and save mankind some the “evil” in their own hearts. We can keep overthrowing regimes but that’s not really going to change what’s inside their hearts. Only Christ can do that. That’s how change really happens. That’s why you didn’t see Jesus overthrowing the Romans even though they were being unfair to the Jews during His time.
“There are so many factions of Christianity now, and they all claim that THEY are the true Christians, just like you do in fact! ”
—————-I’m not in any faction. I believe in the Bible, Jesus, His death and resurrection. Not affiliated with any “sect.” Im biased towards non-denominational because I don’t like “extra” things added to the Bible. But there are Spirit-filled Christians in denominational churches as well. God has a way of appealing to many different kinds of people in their own style.
“This man claims to be a christian, and claims to speak for god, is he right, or are you the righteous one?
http://www.youtube.com/watchv=maeNk2itmMk”
————-Sorry I couldn’t watch the whole thing. Not sure if this man, Fred Phelps, is reading his Bible. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage is going to make you a car.
August 10th, 2009 at 21:36
“So what you are saying is that some people were especially picked by god because they were especially picked by god. Wow, that’s a good argument! Unanswerable. I give up.”
————–What I’m saying is I don’t know why and neither does anyone else. God is in total control and He decides who, what and when. I’m sure there were others who WE could say would’ve “qualified.” I wish I could be one of them but its not up to me or anyone else to decide. This is an example of what we call in Christianity, “the sovereignty of God.”
August 10th, 2009 at 22:15
@imissbubby
If your god is so in control of everything, why were her agents molesting children, why does she allow so many to claim to speak on her behalf, whilst lining their pockets with ill gotton gains. Why do the poorest god fearing of her followers suffer, such as the tsunami victims, and why did she allow the church roof to fall in on her most loyal supporters one Sunday morning in Brazil?
Seems your god isn’t too good at looking after her own, or there is the possibility that god only exists in the mind of man.
How did you come to chose your brand of god, why not one of the many other gods? If I had to follow a god I think I’d chose one that didn’t threaten me with everlasting pain and torment. Fear and intimidation isn’t much of a sales gimmick, but it worked for the Catholic church and the Mafia alike.
August 11th, 2009 at 6:09
@imissbubby
I recommend you have a look at this book. I think it might help you to put the Bible in its correct historical perspective:-
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Wrote-New-Testament-Christian/dp/0060655186
August 11th, 2009 at 17:16
Libel case continues after denial
of permission from Court of Appeal
Simon Singh’s statement
Tuesday 11th August 2009
Sense About Science
http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/390
_____
August 11th, 2009 at 19:38
Dear Quedula,
Have you read this book?
August 11th, 2009 at 19:58
“If your god is so in control of everything, why were her agents molesting children, why does she allow so many to claim to speak on her behalf, whilst lining their pockets with ill gotton gains.”
—————How would you do it differently? Would you burn these guys to a crisp immediately? Evil is not a problem that can be solved with power. God can destroy these people if He wants to. However, people (like me and you) have the potential for both good and evil. If He destroys people, He’ll destroy something evil but also destroy something good. That’s why power does not solve the problem of evil in the human heart.
What we have to do is radically realign our thinking so we see the goodness of God despite the distortion caused by the sin in our hearts and the evil in the world.
“Why do the poorest god fearing of her followers suffer, such as the tsunami victims,”
—————–and Jesus (we live in a fallen world when people would even kill an innocent Man.)
“and why did she allow the church roof to fall in on her most loyal supporters one Sunday morning in Brazil?”
—————–I don’t know.
“Seems your god isn’t too good at looking after her own, or there is the possibility that god only exists in the mind of man.”
————–It is not possible God only exists in the minds of men. We can look at creation and see there was a Creator. Just like you look at a painting and know there was a painter. How? Because you have common sense. You don’t have to know the painter to know someone took oil and painted a canvas.
“How did you come to chose your brand of god, why not one of the many other gods?”
———–Because Jesus is the only One who really solved the problem. The real problem in life is; “What do you do with the crimes of humanity?” No one else has any solution to this problem but Jesus.
“If I had to follow a god I think I’d chose one that didn’t threaten me with everlasting pain and torment.”
—————So you want a weak and unjust god that lets murderers, rapists, child molestors into Heaven? Or do you want a God that burns them to a crisp the minute they do somthing wrong? How about something in the middle? A middleman — that waits and waits and waits and waits for people to repent before judging them.
ps) Should the nation have no laws? No potential of punishment? That doesn’t seem right does it?
“Fear and intimidation isn’t much of a sales gimmick, but it worked for the Catholic church and the Mafia alike.”
—————Oh. I see. You think youre perfect. You think you don’t need forgiveness. Have you ever told a lie? Stolen something? Looked at a woman with lust? Should God let liars, theives and adulterers into Heaven?
Pete, don’t let anyone convince you Christianity is a life improvement program. Its a parachute. Don’t go looking for the comfort first. You’ll end up with a lot of soft soap and wishfull thinking.
August 11th, 2009 at 21:03
@imissbubby
If this god of yours was so omnipotent, why does she allow all the evil to occur in the first place?
Your religion seems to be more like a ‘get out of jail free card’ such that you can be as bad as you like in this life, if you accept Jesus and ask his forgiveness you’re forgiven and your place in heaven is reserved.
I’d rather live my life to my best ability and enjoy it now, because I don’t believe there is anything after.
Anyway, you’re boring me now, because you’re coming out with the usual apologetic excuses for your god, if she did exist all those innocent people living in shanty towns wouldn’t have been swept away by a tsunami.
August 11th, 2009 at 21:09
155 imissbubby
Eh? What book?
August 11th, 2009 at 22:15
“If this god of yours was so omnipotent, why does she allow all the evil to occur in the first place?”
———-God created us with free will. With free will, comes good and bad. As you well know…
“Your religion seems to be more like a ‘get out of jail free card’ such that you can be as bad as you like in this life, if you accept Jesus and ask his forgiveness you’re forgiven and your place in heaven is reserved.”
————Youre assuming God is going to take you in just because you ask. He’s not your lap dog. You have to ask Him to accept you. The Bible says He has refused MANY who call Him “God.” Why? Because He knows who you really are. He cannot be mocked. He’s omniscient and omnipresent.
“I’d rather live my life to my best ability and enjoy it now, because I don’t believe there is anything after.”
————–Reality has a way of dropping a brick on our head when we start making things up that aren’t true…. or deny those things we know are true….doesn’t it?
“Anyway, you’re boring me now, because you’re coming out with the usual apologetic excuses for your god,”
————–You were looking for a juicy, fairy tale weren’t you? LoL. This is reality, Pete! You can keep trying to hold it down, but its going to keep popping out of the water.
“if she did exist all those innocent people living in shanty towns wouldn’t have been swept away by a tsunami.”
————–You’re trying to invent a reality that doesn’t exist. By definition, God is smarter than you. You can’t begin by thinking you have all the answers. Assume your ignorance in light of His omniscience and then start your investigation.
Or you can keep going down a puny, small-minded, arrogant road. Reality isn’t going to change because you don’t like it. You’ll keep raging and its just going to stand there, looking at you, ignoring your rants.
Take care*
August 11th, 2009 at 22:17
Quedula:
You sent me a link to a book and I would like to know if you have read it.
August 11th, 2009 at 22:27
@Pete #157
Afraid I was bored with the current ‘imissbubby’ thread a good few posts ago.
There is a recent post on YouTube, it’s an interview with Dawkins entitled ‘What Have the Noughties Done for God’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZJ_N4OW-7U
In it he says that it’s difficult to have a conversation with a ’sophisticated modern christian’ because it’s like punching a sponge where they’ll say about anything that you throw, ‘oh well that’s not my kind of christianity’.
Time and again, reiligious types come here to argue the toss against atheism and always they pose the same arguments. Wouldn’t it be good if for once, something new could be brought to the party!
By the way, (incase ‘imissbubby’ takes my quoting of Dawkins as proof that I want to make Dawkins GOD), I chose athesim a long long long time before I knew that Dawkins was banging on about it.
August 11th, 2009 at 22:43
Dear Pete,
Reality is boring, is it?
Well, there you have it; you’re looking for a feel good myth and what you keep getting is reality.
Maybe after you turn 30.
Good luck with your life!
August 11th, 2009 at 22:46
Wonder why your boy Dawkins doesn’t spend an immense amount of time and money chasing the flying spagetti monster or fairies?
Don’t you think its bizarre that he made a career out of chasing something he says doesn’t exist?
That’s sounds like insanity to me.
He can’t be trusted. He’s crazy.
August 11th, 2009 at 23:02
‘Don’t you think its bizarre that he made a career out of chasing something he says doesn’t exist?’
No, he (and others) have found that religion and religious thought poisons society and so is now rallying against those who would poison.
Of course, you’ll have a comeback on this.
Funny though, if it weren’t for Ariane Sherine’s gentle campaign, then all these religious apologists (including you ‘imissbubby’) wouldn’t be here trying to convince use that the athesists with thier independant thinking are wrong.
Funny that I’ve NEVER thought to go to a religious website and troll there.
Aye, whatever!
August 11th, 2009 at 23:09
@imissbubby:
“Don’t you think its bizarre that he made a career out of chasing something he says doesn’t exist?”
And you waste your life worshipping something that doesn’t exist… oh the irony!
@Pete & Quedula:
Your very elloquent points are wasted on this guy. He has the reasoning powers of a troll, he smells like a troll, he has the closed mind of a troll… so he must be a…. duck!
August 12th, 2009 at 1:07
Dear Richard:
God does exist and science, your conscience and Creation all proves He exists.
August 12th, 2009 at 1:13
“No, he (and others) have found that religion and religious thought poisons society and so is now rallying against those who would poison.”
————-As we have discussed before, its not religion that poisons. Its people. Darwin, Peter Singer, Osama Bin Ladin, Ahmedinijad, et al. are the only ones preaching the doctrines of murder and genocide. Dawkins should be writing books about how murderers are masquerading as Darwinian Evolutionists. Would that not be a great thriller!
“Of course, you’ll have a comeback on this.”
————-Of course.
“Funny though, if it weren’t for Ariane Sherine’s gentle campaign, then all these religious apologists (including you ‘imissbubby’) wouldn’t be here trying to convince use that the athesists with thier independant thinking are wrong.”
————–You don’t sound like an independent thinker. You sound intellectually dishonest.
“Funny that I’ve NEVER thought to go to a religious website and troll there.”
————–I don’t know what you mean by “troll” but I’m sure the Christians would welcome you with open arms.
August 12th, 2009 at 7:23
@imissbubby
‘Maybe after you turn 30.’
Mmm, now the insults are coming, must be a troll.
People do indeed kill people, but WHY are they killing people, in Irag Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims are killing each other, the US military is rife with Cristian zealots who think they are doing gods work.
The Crusades was a Christian war against Islam, the Spanish catholic missionaries traveled with the invading forces to convert or kill African and South American tribesmen. The Inca’s would probably still be worshiping the sun if they hadn’t been forced to follow a false god, at least the sun DOES exist, and it keeps us alive.
“He has the reasoning powers of a troll, he smells like a troll, he has the closed mind of a troll… so he must be a…. duck!”
Not a crockoduck I hope!!!
August 12th, 2009 at 12:06
@ imissbubby
‘“Funny that I’ve NEVER thought to go to a religious website and troll there.”
————–I don’t know what you mean by “troll” but I’m sure the Christians would welcome you with open arms.’
Oh I think you do know what I mean.
You call me ‘intellectually dishonest’, well I’m intellectually honest enough to reason for myself that god does not exist and neither you nor other religious apologists have been able to talk me round to believing otherwise.
You know the atheist arguments and yet you cannot understand the arguments or refuse to understand them.
I suspect that you are intellectually indoctrinated.
What is the phrase-’Don’t Feed the Troll’
Good bye and may you be happy with your imaginary friend.
August 13th, 2009 at 14:56
There’s probably no cod
- Greenpeace expresses
doubts about cod’s existence
Greenpeace Canada has launched billboards and
bus advertisements that parody a controversial
campaign from a Canadian atheist group.
Marketing Magazine
http://tinyurl.com/qd3hke
_____
August 14th, 2009 at 2:16
The Atheist and the Bishop
BBC Radio 4, 8:00pm-8:45pm
Wednesday 19 August 2009
Three-part series in which an atheist and a bishop come together to
apply their own philosophies to the experiences of people they meet,
with Jane Little chairing the discussion. 1: The atheist philosopher
Dr Miranda Fricker and Lord Harries of Pentregarth, the former Bishop
of Oxford, tackle suffering and death.
http://feeds.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m1nlm
_____
August 14th, 2009 at 18:29
UKTV
Revelations: How Do You Know God Exists?
Channel 4, Sunday 16 August, 7:00pm
Film maker Antony Thomas (who previously made Death of a Princess) chats
to a brace of Archbishops, the Chief Rabbi and prominent Hindu and Muslim
leaders about how their beliefs connect with the world today. He covers
some of the tough issues – why can’t Anglicans handle the idea of women
bishops? Why is the Catholic Church impeding the use of condoms in the
fight against AIDS? The answers aren’t very convincing. Despite this,
some viewers will think Antony Thomas lets the clerics off lightly,
although he reveals in the Radio Times that he is no longer a
believer himself. [Source: NSS Newsline]
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/revelations/episode-guide/series-8/episode-1
_____
August 14th, 2009 at 18:59
UKTV
Deliver us from Evil
More4, Tuesday 18 August, 10:00pm
An unmissable Oscar-nominated documentary that
explores the case of Oliver O’Grady, a former
Catholic priest, who was sentenced to 14 years
in 1993 for sexually abusing children. The
interviews with his victims are heartbreaking
and the sheer indifference to their pain by
the Vatican is infuriating. [Source: NSS Newsline]
Deliver us from Evil – trailer
http://www.deliverusfromevilthemovie.com/index_flash.php
_____
August 16th, 2009 at 0:24
Dear Roy:
“You call me ‘intellectually dishonest’, well I’m intellectually honest enough to reason for myself that god does not exist”
———-Based on what? It cannot be because of science that you don’t believe in God.
” and neither you nor other religious apologists have been able to talk me round to believing otherwise.”
———-Just like thiefs don’t go around looking for policemen. It sounds like you’re not willing to consider the evidence for the claims of Christ for fear that you would be convinced and would have to change your life. Other well-known atheists have refused to be intellectually honest with the basic historical/scientific facts concerning God and the birth, life, teachings, miracles, death, and resurrection of Jesus. You’re not alone.
“You know the atheist arguments and yet you cannot understand the arguments or refuse to understand them.”
———I understand them all and see no logic in beneficial mutations (which have never been observed or biologically reproduced) and natural selection which is simply a sorting mechanism and proves adaptation, not macro-evolution. Spontaneous generation has never occured or been reproduced. And if it were reproduced, then that proves it requires Intelligence to do it. If youre basing your worldview on Darwinism, you’re being misled. Or lied to. I see no other alternatives.
What I see is a world created by intelligence. Origins of biologic code must come from from intelligence; there is no other answer.
“I suspect that you are intellectually indoctrinated.”
————Into what? I have not been a Christian my whole life. I didn’t become a Christian until I looked into the historical, archeological and scientific evidence for the Deity of Christ. I have many reasons why I believe what I do.
“Good bye and may you be happy with your imaginary friend.”
————–Take care, Roy.
August 16th, 2009 at 0:33
“People do indeed kill people, but WHY are they killing people, ”
———-Because they’re following their evil side. Its feels good to them to be evil. Look at you. Does it feel good to you not to bow your knee to God? You seem to be enjoying it from what I can tell. You need forgiveness as much as they do.
“in Irag Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims are killing each other, the US military is rife with Cristian zealots who think they are doing gods work. The Crusades was a Christian war against Islam, the Spanish catholic missionaries traveled with the invading forces to convert or kill African and South American tribesmen. The Inca’s would probably still be worshiping the sun if they hadn’t been forced to follow a false god,”
—————And Hitler would be ruler of the world right now if “Christian zealot” military hadn’t stopped Him. Start blaming the right person. Its not God’s fault people kill each other. Do you understand that? I don’t think you do. You seem to have a big “victim” mentality.
The survival of the fittest doctrine is the doctrine of murder. Get mad about that.
August 16th, 2009 at 0:34
Dear Pete:
“People do indeed kill people, but WHY are they killing people, ”
———-Because they’re following their evil side. Its feels good to them to be evil. Look at you. Does it feel good to you not to bow your knee to God? You seem to be enjoying it from what I can tell. You need forgiveness as much as they do.
“in Irag Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims are killing each other, the US military is rife with Cristian zealots who think they are doing gods work. The Crusades was a Christian war against Islam, the Spanish catholic missionaries traveled with the invading forces to convert or kill African and South American tribesmen. The Inca’s would probably still be worshiping the sun if they hadn’t been forced to follow a false god,”
—————And Hitler would be ruler of the world right now if “Christian zealot” military hadn’t stopped Him. Start blaming the right person. Its not God’s fault people kill each other. Do you understand that? I don’t think you do. You seem to have a big “victim” mentality.
The survival of the fittest doctrine is the doctrine of murder. Get mad about that.
August 16th, 2009 at 0:37
Dear Richard:
You said:
“And you waste your life worshipping something that doesn’t exist… oh the irony!”
I worship and spend my time on something I
BELIEVE EXISTS.
Richard Dawkins, spends his time on something he
DOESN’T BELIEVE exists.
Do you understand the difference?
I spend my time on things I believe are true.
He spends his time on things he believes are false.
That’s kinda weird, don’t you think?
August 16th, 2009 at 0:40
Dear Roy,
Do you know that Richard Dawkins refuses to debate well-known, intelligent Creationists?
What’s he so afraid of?
Others have done it.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:11
‘———-Just like thiefs don’t go around looking for policemen. It sounds like you’re not willing to consider the evidence for the claims of Christ for fear that you would be convinced and would have to change your life’
What is the evidence of god and of christ?
Can you give me Christian websites that I can troll on, so that I might have them pray for me?
August 16th, 2009 at 6:53
imissbubby: “… intelligent Creationists”
Lol – surely an oxymoron?!
August 16th, 2009 at 8:35
imissbubby has no comprehension of what true scientists count as evidence.
It is emphatically not what goes on in his mind. Nor is it in what ancient people once wrote down in trying, from their primitive world views, to make sense of their existence.
We are all born with the power to reason. Some people (mostly scientists I suppose) nurture and develop it; others, usually of low intelligence and high gullibility, allow it to be swamped by emotional neediness and turn to Invisible Magic Friends.
August 16th, 2009 at 8:50
imissbubby: “Richard Dawkins, spends his time on something he DOESN’T BELIEVE exists.”
Oh dear, you’re wrong again, imissbubby! Dawkins spends his time on things which do exist. Things like the delusions religious people like you suffer from.
But I don’t think you are able to “see the difference”.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:16
Hi imissbubby.
Unsure why I am wasting my time with you, but I suppose it is because I am fascinated by your ignorance of science, nature and history.
Please tell me why, when the “flood” occured in 2348 BCE (a not insignificant event), it was not noticed at the time by those documenting the Egyptian 5th and the 6th dynasties?
August 19th, 2009 at 16:36
Dear Malcolm,
Let me get back to you on that. I don’t have an answer on the tip of my tongue.
Have a great day. Miss Bubby
August 19th, 2009 at 16:38
Good Morning, Richard W!
“Dawkins spends his time on things which do exist. Things like the delusions religious people like you suffer from.”
————-And that’s important to him because_____?
August 19th, 2009 at 16:41
Dear Quedula, You said:
“imissbubby has no comprehension of what true scientists count as evidence.”
—————–I think they count what is testable & observable. Also what can be proven logically and mathematically. Darwinism does not fall into any of these catagories.
“It is emphatically not what goes on in his mind. Nor is it in what ancient people once wrote down in trying, from their primitive world views, to make sense of their existence.”
—————–How about what modern science says? Does that matter? Check this out:
SCRIPPS PhD DISSENTS FROM DARWIN
Edward Peltzer, University of California, San Diego (Scripps Institute)
“As a chemist, the most fascinating issue for me revolves around the origin of life. Before life began, there was no biology, only chemistry – and chemistry is the same for all time. What works (or not) today, worked (or not) back in the beginning. So, our ideas about what happened on Earth prior to the emergence of life are eminently testable in the lab. And what we have seen thus far when the reactions are left unguided as they would be in the natural world is not much. Indeed, the decomposition reactions and competing reactions out distance the synthetic reactions by far. It is only when an intelligent agent (such as a scientist or graduate student) intervenes and “tweaks” the reactions conditions “just right” do we see any progress at all, and even then it is still quite limited and very far from where we need to get. Thus, it is the very chemistry that speaks of a need for something more than just time and chance. And whether that be simply a highly specified set of initial conditions (fine-tuning) or some form of continual guidance until life ultimately emerges is still unknown. But what we do know is the random chemical reactions are both woefully insufficient and are often working against the pathways needed to succeed. For these reasons I have serious doubts about whether the current Darwinian paradigm will ever make additional progress in this area.”
Edward Peltzer
Ph.D. Oceanography, University of California, San Diego (Scripps Institute)
Associate Editor, Marine Chemistry
August 19th, 2009 at 16:46
Dear Quedula: You said:
“imissbubby has no comprehension of what true scientists count as evidence.”
————-How about this guy. Do you think he knows what constitutes evidence?
Chris Williams, Ph.D., Biochemistry Ohio State University
“As a biochemist and software developer who works in genetic and metabolic screening, I am continually amazed by the incredible complexity of life. For example, each of us has a vast ‘computer program’ of six billion DNA bases in every cell that guided our development from a fertilized egg, specifies how to make more than 200 tissue types, and ties all this together in numerous highly functional organ systems. Few people outside of genetics or biochemistry realize that evolutionists still can provide no substantive details at all about the origin of life, and particularly the origin of genetic information in the first self-replicating organism. What genes did it require – or did it even have genes? How much DNA and RNA did it have – or did it even have nucleic acids? How did huge information-rich molecules arise before natural selection? Exactly how did the genetic code linking nucleic acids to amino acid sequence originate? Clearly the origin of life – the foundation of evolution – is still virtually all speculation, and little if no fact.”
August 19th, 2009 at 16:50
Dear Roy, You asked:
“What is the evidence of god and of christ?”
———the laws of Nature, the human conscience and our natural desire for justice.
“Can you give me Christian websites that I can troll on, so that I might have them pray for me?”
———–Yes. But you have to be nice when you visit. lol.
August 19th, 2009 at 18:08
imissbubby: //“Dawkins spends his time on things which do exist. Things like the delusions religious people like you suffer from.”
And that’s important to him because_____?//
Blimey imissbubby! You might have missed the whole point of the ABC campaign!!
It’s important because deluded religious fanatical people can be very dangerous. Some fly aircraft into skyscrapers, others murder doctors and nurses, and still more just kill each other (and non-believers) in the name of their various god(s).
Many religious people are also very gullible, and tend to believe what “pseudoscientists” tell them. Creationist ’scientists’ like Kent Hovind and Ken Ham, who purchased their dodgy doctorates from diploma mills, will happily spread ignorance to the gullible, and their unfortunate children. Of course, Hovind and Ham have made millions of dollars in the process.
August 19th, 2009 at 19:09
@imissbubby 187 &188
You appear to be trying to impress me with scientific quote-mining without fully understanding the fundamentals. I am not a biochemist but I do know that the origins of the amino acids essential for the protein building blocks of life has not yet been explained. This in no way throws doubt on the way evolution has operated over the last 4bn years to produce, from the first micro-organisms, the diversity we see today.
You would be on much firmer ground if you simply claimed that your god seeded a meteorite with the necessary amino acids and put it on a collision course with Earth.
A god like that would probably see you out whereas the fantasy you insist on is, as Sir Julian Huxley put it, “. . beginning to resemble the fast fading smile on a cosmic cheshire cat”.
August 25th, 2009 at 21:12
To let you know, there is a bus campaign going in Des Moines, Iowa right now.
“Don’t believe in God? You are not alone.”
It has, predictably, raised a ridiculous amount of controversy.
August 26th, 2009 at 18:15
Atheists on the march in America
Ruth Morris |AFP / Google News
http://tinyurl.com/muxvqu
_____
August 26th, 2009 at 20:09
What has happened to Miss Bubby?
I asked one difficult question and the reply was (see 184 and 185) “Let me get back to you on that. I don’t have an answer on the tip of my tongue”.
Answer – ther came none.
Come on Miss Bubby, we expect better!
Did anyone see the programme “Revelations”?
Did it bring tears to your eyes when you saw the effect of the RC “no condoms” policy on the woman in Manilla living in one room with her nine children on an income of 60 pence per day?
Or the RC archbishop in AIDS ridden Kenya burning condoms and sex-education literature?
The programme made me feel proud to have decided on decent morals, free from religion.
Did you note Rowan Williams’ weasel words when asked about hell?
The programme did more to create atheists than any of the wonderful campaigns that are gathering pace around the world.
Peace and good will to you all.
Malcolm
August 27th, 2009 at 0:48
Malcolm
I unavoidably missed ‘Revelations’ but have it earmarked to watch sometime soon (4oD tells me I have 10 days left to view it).
Not going to pre-empt what is in it since that would give fuel to those who would say I have a closed mind.
Roy
August 27th, 2009 at 0:49
Sorry, that was 19 days to watch it, not 10
Roy
August 27th, 2009 at 1:15
Hi Malcolm –
Here I am!
Miss Bubby
August 27th, 2009 at 1:30
Dear Richard,
“Blimey imissbubby!”
———–Is blimey a bad word? I hope not: it has a nice ring.
“You might have missed the whole point of the ABC campaign!! It’s important because deluded religious fanatical people can be very dangerous.”
———–In principal, Christianity cannot lead to evil. Its is the people who do the evil.
“Some fly aircraft into skyscrapers,”
————I agree. Islam needs to be destroyed. The Qur’an teaches vengence. Not the people need to be destroyed, the religion.
“others murder doctors and nurses, and still more just kill each other (and non-believers) in the name of their various god(s).”
————We’ve already been through this. People kill others because the mail didnt come in on time or dinner was bad. Religion is not the problem: evil is the problem. Jesus is the answer you’re looking for. People need to turn from sin, and turn to Jesus. Ask Him for forgiveness and live a sincere, godly life.
“Many religious people are also very gullible, and tend to believe what “pseudoscientists” tell them. Creationist ’scientists’ like Kent Hovind and Ken Ham, who purchased their dodgy doctorates from diploma mills, will happily spread ignorance to the gullible, and their unfortunate children. Of course, Hovind and Ham have made millions of dollars in the process.”
—————LoL. And Richard Dawkins made how much before admitting he never researched the fossil record until deciding to release another book this November? Science has proven the species can only reproduce within their own kind and random mutations is not a creaton agent. Hence, there’s no such thing as speciation. The fossil record has proven that man spontaneously arrived on the scene: there are no transitionary bodies found and we have more than 500,000 fossils on the record. Pasteur finally published the Law of Biogenesis in 1864 and Stanley/Urey proved in 1952 AGAIN that: life can only come from life: There’s no such thing as spontaneous generation. Francis Crick proved that DNA has a biological language that could not have evolved. COULD NOT have evolved. It was created and installed by intelligence. What in the world are you following science for? In 100 years, what we know today will be outdated. What does science keep proving? Its always wrong.
Follow God. You need forgiveness to remove the guilt and shame and set you free.
August 27th, 2009 at 1:32
Dear Malcom,
I forgot to do the research on 185…on the list again…
back to you shortly.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:18
@ imissbubby:
“In principal, Christianity cannot lead to evil. Its is the people who do the evil.”
Yeah – particularly, evil Christians.
And then you contradict yourself again! In the same paragraph you say “Islam needs to be destroyed… not the people… the religion”. Then when I give example of Christians murdering in the name of their God it’s: “Religion is not the problem!”
So your criticism of religion is selective, and therefore insincere.
Nice one imissbubby!
And I note you are unable to make comments supporting creeps like Ham and Hovind, who have made millions out of gullible Christians and their children. Instead you make comments about an author you hate (Dawkins) in an amatuer attempt to ignore the justified criticism about your beloved creationist heroes. Such diversionary tactics are ‘flakey’ at best. Your refusal to criticise Hovind would also indicate that you condone illegal activities, but only if carried out by Christians.
So in this sigle post you show yourself to be ‘insincere’ and ‘flakey’. Have you ever considered a career in the church?
August 27th, 2009 at 8:37
@ 198
Malcolm’s question was:-
“Please tell me why, when the “flood” occured in 2348 BCE (a not insignificant event), it was not noticed at the time by those documenting the Egyptian 5th and the 6th dynasties?”
To relieve everyone’s breathless suspense let me guess what the results of imissbubby’s “research” will be:
a) they forgot to write it down; or
b) the ancient Egyptians didn’t exist; or (and I think the most likely);
c) the egyptologists and archeologists have got their research wrong and the 5th & 6th dynasties were after the flood; or (as last resort),
d) divine intervention of some sort.
August 27th, 2009 at 14:42
Hi Quedula
You really are not yet into the twisted mindset of the creationists as you have omitted the obvious answer:
e) The 5th dynasty was wiped out by the flood and the 6th dynasty was formed by Noah’s offspring.
Please Quedula, do your research properly, I thought that you were intelligent!!!
Peace and greetings to all.
August 27th, 2009 at 19:23
Dear Richard:
“Yeah – particularly, evil Christians.”
————Guess what happens when you wipe out religion? People still commit evil acts. Then what? (This has been my point to you.)
“And then you contradict yourself again! In the same paragraph you say “Islam needs to be destroyed… not the people… the religion”. Then when I give example of Christians murdering in the name of their God it’s: “Religion is not the problem!”
—————Guess what happens when you wipe out religion? People still commit evil acts. Then what? (Still my point.)
“And I note you are unable to make comments supporting creeps like Ham and Hovind, who have made millions out of gullible Christians and their children.”
——————You are taking advantage of gullible university students by teaching them lies about science, indoctrinating them into your quacky, angry religion and using my tax dollars to do it. I will fight you until the end.
“Instead you make comments about an author you hate (Dawkins) in an amatuer attempt to ignore the justified criticism about your beloved creationist heroes.”
————–Im against you, people like you and Dawkins. Even if you take God off the dollar, out of schools, create mystical sooth saying science, you’ll never stop us from praying or reading the Bible or preaching repentance and eternal life. I suppose you can start letting the lions loose on us again or burning our Bibles again. Nonetheless, you’ll never destroy us. We will live forever and you and your hate for God will become the biggest embarrassment to you and your family. Richard, you need to turn from sin and turn to God. Today.
August 27th, 2009 at 19:59
Tee hee, I think we are getting to him . . . .
August 27th, 2009 at 20:29
————–Im against you, people like you and Dawkins. Even if you take God off the dollar, out of schools, create mystical sooth saying science, you’ll never stop us from praying or reading the Bible or preaching repentance and eternal life. I suppose you can start letting the lions loose on us again or burning our Bibles again. Nonetheless, you’ll never destroy us. We will live forever and you and your hate for God will become the biggest embarrassment to you and your family. Richard, you need to turn from sin and turn to God. Today.
Blimey, that was a bit of a rant. At least it shows you in your true colours, you first came here as an understanding christian, but it appears you are running scared at the prospect of your religion going the way of all the other religions before it.
Most of us are happy for you to believe in whatever it is you want to believe in, what we are against is religious bullies trying to scare people with threats of everlasting damnation. We are against religion in politics, we are against using your god to justify a war in the middle east.
A secular state, where you are free to follow your religion, or any other religion, and people are free to choose not to follow a religion without fear of harassment. All religions should pay taxes, televangelism would be outlawed and religious quacks like Peter Popoff would be outlawed.
You carry on praying, and I’ll carry on with my life as I see fit. I’m every bit as good a person as any religionist, I’ve been a firefighter, served in the Air Force, I’ve participated in charity fund raising, and I give to charities regularly. I don’t need forgiveness, and I certainly don’t need to be judged by some pompous, self righteous arse wipe christian.
August 27th, 2009 at 20:45
“I don’t need forgiveness, and I certainly don’t need to be judged by some pompous, self righteous arse wipe christian.”
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Spot on Pete. You’ve made my evening!
August 27th, 2009 at 21:23
You’re right quedula, he’s lost it!
Poor sod was more upset about his dollars being spent teaching kids the truth. I’m surprised he was able to find gainful employment.
// you’ll never stop us from praying or reading the Bible or preaching repentance and eternal life. //
Jeeez, I wouldn’t want to stop you – it’s keeping you occupied! Asylums are full of nutters like you, so you carry on rocking to-and-fro, praying to your imaginary friend. I’m sure the walls are nice and soft.
But please be kind to the nurses – they’re only there to help you.
Goodnight imissbubby. Pleasant dreams.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:24
Dear Quedula,
You don’t need forgiveness?
Why is that?
Are you perfect?
Better than the rest of us?
Do you base your righteousness on yourself?
(That’s what self-righteous means, by the way)
August 27th, 2009 at 21:36
Dear Pete:
“it appears you are running scared at the prospect of your religion going the way of all the other religions before it.”
———–Running scared? I don’t understand: I live in the comfort of the Holy Spirit..you’ll never destroy me. I risk nothing. You are risking everything. You are filled with anxiety about the future and fearful of death.
“what we are against is religious bullies trying to scare people with threats of everlasting damnation.”
————-You can’t get mad at Christians for saying that. That’s what is written in the Bible. Get mad at God while youre home alone. Dont take it out on us.
“We are against religion in politics, we are against using your god to justify a war in the middle east.”
————–Are you against a German painter using evolution to justify genocide?
“A secular state, where you are free to follow your religion, or any other religion, and people are free to choose not to follow a religion without fear of harassment.”
————-Who is harrassing you for being an atheist?
“You carry on praying, and I’ll carry on with my life as I see fit. I’m every bit as good a person as any religionist,”
————–Youre not perfect, Pete. You need forgiveness from God.
“I’ve been a firefighter, served in the Air Force, I’ve participated in charity fund raising, and I give to charities regularly.”
—————Youre trying to justify your goodness based on your own righteousness. What youre saying is the equivalent of this: Your airplane about to go down and you think that by jumping out and flapping your arms, you can save yourself. That’s obsurd. What you need is a parachute, right? That what Jesus is. Christianity is not a life improvement program; its a parachute. Jesus is the Savior youve been looking for. Turn from the sin that is killing you and turn to God.
“I don’t need forgiveness,”
————–That’s pretty arrogant. I’d think about that one long and hard.
“and I certainly don’t need to be judged by some pompous, self righteous arse wipe christian”
—————Youre right; you don’t need judgement from a Christian. Youre going to be judged by Jesus Christ. What you need from a Christian is for them to point you to the way, the truth and the life. No one can get to the Father except through Jesus.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:37
imissbubby:
// Are you perfect?
Better than the rest of us? //
Oooh, the irony!!
August 27th, 2009 at 21:38
Dear Richard,
Darwinian Evolution is a lie.
Its being dismanted day by day.
You should read the Freedom of Science Education Acts being passed in the U.S. You can’t keep the truth down anymore, Baby. The state isn’t going to keep protecting steamboat science. Thank Francis Crick for that.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:40
imissbubby:
// ————-Who is harrassing you for being an atheist? //
Are you allowed a mirror in your ce– , sorry, room?
August 27th, 2009 at 21:41
Dear Richard,
You consider our discussion harrassment?
Are you a sissy or something?
August 27th, 2009 at 21:49
Dear Richard,
You don’t get it:
I’m not perfect…that’s why I’ve asked Jesus to forgive me. This is why I’m accepted into Heaven: because I’ve asked for forgiveness, believe Jesus is God and turned from pursuing a sinful life to pursuing a righteous one.
Jesus took the punishment that I deserve for the sins I’ve committed. He rose from the dead because He was sinless; He was God. Death can’t keep Him down. That’s why when you become a Christian you live; the Spirit of God lives inside of you. Sin kills. Jesus brings life.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:51
@imissbubby:
Do sissies worry you?
Tell me, which parts of the bible suggest Darwin was wrong? Most Christians I know don’t have a problem with evolution.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:57
// Jesus took the punishment that I deserve for the sins I’ve committed. //
I bet Jesus thinks you’re a right little shit. I prefer to take responsibility for my own actions, and so should you. Bend over and take it like a man, imissbubby.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:02
Answering imissbubby @207
“You don’t need forgiveness?”
No, I don’t
“Why is that?”
I don’t generally do things that need forgiving. When I have ever knowingly upset anyone I apologise.
“Are you perfect?”
Yes I suppose I am. I’ve successfully passed on my genes and thus done my little bit towards the survival of the species.
“Better than the rest of us?”
That’s for the rest of you to say.
“Do you base your righteousness on yourself?”
Not quite sure what that means. But no I don’t think so. I just try to behave to other people as I would like them to behave to me. “Do as you would be done by” is my maxim.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:11
I think you ought to tell us imissbubby. what were the sins you needed forgiveness for?
Playing with your naughty bits?
August 27th, 2009 at 22:13
Lol!
Well quedula, we may not hear from imissbubby for a while. I expect those awfully nice nurses have given him his medication, changed his catheter bag, wiped his arse, unplugged his PC and switched his light out.
I expect he’ll be having his favourite dream soon – the one where the world gets dominated by foamy-mouthed, intolerant, ranting Christians wearing leather codpieces.
The poor sod.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:21
“I live in the comfort of the Holy Spirit..you’ll never destroy me. I risk nothing. You are risking everything. You are filled with anxiety about the future and fearful of death.”
I have no intention of destroying you or any other religionist, I just want a secular state. I know my future and i don’t fear death, but I do fear HOW I die, I would like the right to take my own life if the prospect of a long painful death is in store.
“You can’t get mad at Christians for saying that. That’s what is written in the Bible. Get mad at God while youre home alone. Dont take it out on us.”
It is the religionists who are trying to tell me how to live my life, so my beef is with them, not a myth. You yourself have a religion, just because it isn’t your religion.
“Are you against a German painter using evolution to justify genocide?”
Oh, you mean the Catholic leader of Germany from 1933 to 1945, yes, and I’m against anyone using religion as an excuse to kill, in fact any excuse to justify killing is wrong. The Klu Klux Klan are a fine example of christian love and kindness.
“Who is harrassing you for being an atheist?”
Anyone who thinks that their religion is the only true religion, I’ve been abused, but fortunately not as bad as many atheists who live in the bible belt.
“Youre not perfect, Pete. You need forgiveness from God.”
I’ve never claimed to be perfect, but I try to be a good citizen, and no I don’t need the approval of a myth, in fact I’d rather have the approval of Santa Claus.
“Youre trying to justify your goodness based on your own righteousness. What youre saying is the equivalent of this: Your airplane about to go down and you think that by jumping out and flapping your arms, you can save yourself. That’s obsurd. What you need is a parachute, right? That what Jesus is. Christianity is not a life improvement program; its a parachute. Jesus is the Savior youve been looking for. Turn from the sin that is killing you and turn to God.”
Thats all mumbo jumbo that you believe, you seem to forget that I don’t.
“That’s pretty arrogant. I’d think about that one long and hard.”
That’s pretty rich coming from a christian, a devotee of the only true god, whilst wishing death upon Muslims. Pot, kettle, black!
“Youre right; you don’t need judgment from a Christian.”
So why do you and your ilk continue to judge anyone that doesn’t believe in your brand of god?
Oh, and by the way, mortal man is on the verge of creating life, the last vestige of religious one upmanship.
Man is slowly unraveling the world around him, and each discovery dis-miss’s the fairy stories of the bible, one day the whole myth will collapse in on itself and christianity will go the way of all the religions that came before it.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:56
@imissbubby
http://nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
Take a look at the link above for one of christianities shining examples of the 20th century, they prayed for victory, they believed the god of the bible was on their side, they even believed that they were doing gods work. The sad part is this very scenario is being repeated in America, but at least America has got rid of it’s loony leader, shame it wasn’t done sooner, before all those American troops died unnecessarily in Iraq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvrjZ1ubDyo
The above link should worry you as much as it worries me, the US forces being overrun by religious zealots who think they do gods work.
August 28th, 2009 at 1:07
Hi everyone.
Our creationist friend is rattled.
I do not think that we will ever get an answer to my question. He/she has the usual pathetic arguments copied verbatim from the creationist clap-trap available on the web, but when it comes to Egyptian history the creationists have no credible solution to the conundrum.
Quedula, did you like my suggested solution in 219?
I have just signed up for an Alpha course (should be a good laugh, but what are the odds on me completing it), so in ten weeks or so you may find me joining imissbubby in ranting and raving at you lot of heathens.
August 28th, 2009 at 6:26
Yes Malcolm, I did like it. I think it was probably the killer.
There is also a rather milder question of mine he has never answered too. So he rants instead!
Enjoy the Alpha Course and keep us posted.
August 28th, 2009 at 15:20
Dear Malcolm,
What is an Alpha Course?
August 28th, 2009 at 15:22
Dear Pete,
I don’t wish death to Muslims; you misquoted me. I think that Islam is as bad for people as Evolution and should not be encouraged.
August 28th, 2009 at 15:23
Dear Pete,
LoL. We can’t even create a grain of sand and you think we’re on the verge of creating humans? LoL!!! We cant create anything; we merely rearrange what is already here.
August 28th, 2009 at 15:24
Dear Quedula,
The sins I’ve been forgiven for are just as bad as the ones you’re committing everyday. The guilt won’t go away, you know. Not until you ask for forgiveness.
August 28th, 2009 at 15:26
Dear Pete,
Youre already following what the God of Bible says is right and wrong. Don’t commit murder, don’t steal, don’t lie. You have this inside of you. Don’t you want to know where it came from?
August 28th, 2009 at 15:41
imissbubby @225
You seem to know an awful lot about me without even meeting me.
What sins do you think I’m committing every day? What am I supposed to be feeling guilty about?
August 28th, 2009 at 16:19
Hi imissbubby
Alpha course at http://uk.alpha.org/questions.
Note that your god has not answered a single one of the 8,000+ questions.
What is the answer to my earlier question????
Another one for you; the whole virgin birth of a god, three wise men, death, resurrection/Jesus story is an EXACT copy of the Osiris myth of several thousand years BCE. The subsequent identical virgin birth stories in Egyptian history are fully documented and dated. Since the Mary/Jesus story is identical, but WITHOUT any contemporaneous documentation and three decades of Jesus’ life not mentioned in the Bible, why do you not realize that it is a complete myth concocted by men who, at the time, would have no reason to doubt the veracity of stories that we know today are simple fabrications used to explain the incomprehensibility of life and death?
These god myths were also recognized as a powerful means of controlling an uneducated peasant population; education is eroding significantly the power-base of religions to the extent that in Sweden and Denmark (each with a highly educated population) over 80% are non-believers in god. In the USA the figure is 10%, perhaps this figure is a reflection on the education system where 35% of adults could not locate the USA on a world map.
We await your response with interest.
Please do tell us more about yourself, m/f, location, job etc., do not worry we atheists are into jihads or inquisitions!!
Best wishes
Malcolm
August 28th, 2009 at 16:42
Hi again imissbubby
Here is an example of evolution at work:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6101031/From-mousy-to-blonde—in-8000-years.html
Note the last paragraph – “In the bicentennial of Charles Darwin’s birth and on the 150th anniversary of his publication of On The Origin Of The Species, this study vividly illustrates the power of natural selection.”
Just noticed a massive problem with Dr Hopi Hoekstra’s research, he forgot that god created the universe on 23rd October 4004 BCE at nine o’clock in the morning, as calculated by Bishop James Ussher (why was he not a bit more specific)!!!
Cheers
Malcolm
August 28th, 2009 at 16:53
Dear Malcolm,
This is not an example of macro-evolution (Darwinian Evolution.)
This is an example of micro-evolution (variance within a species.) How do we know that? Because we see two mice….of different color.
August 28th, 2009 at 16:53
Hi imissbubby
Just noticed my error on 228, final para should read “do not worry, we atheists are NOT into jihads or inquisitions!!”
I hope that my error did not scare you! We are pretty mild-mannered lot, we even help out Christians with their fund-raising – http://www.justgiving.com/alphaposters/?pid=1475051&dtpn=1#DonationTable
Have a great day
Malcolm
August 28th, 2009 at 17:30
Dear Malcolm:
“Another one for you; the whole virgin birth of a god, three wise men, death, resurrection/Jesus story is an EXACT copy of the Osiris myth of several thousand years BCE. The subsequent identical virgin birth stories in Egyptian history are fully documented and dated.”
—————–Who wrote this story? How many manuscripts are there of this story and where are they located? How many years after the occurance was the biography written? Were there any eye witnesses? Let’s start with that to determine whether this is a true or false story. These stories were written after Jesus’ birth and resurrection but claim otherwise. When you do the research, you’ll find that as well.
“Since the Mary/Jesus story is identical, but WITHOUT any contemporaneous documentation and three decades of Jesus’ life not mentioned in the Bible,
—————Why does it matter to you that we don’t know about His first 30 years?
“why do you not realize that it is a complete myth concocted by men who, at the time, would have no reason to doubt the veracity of stories that we know today are simple fabrications used to explain the incomprehensibility of life and death? ”
————–How can you say the eye witness accounts of Jesus are concocted? How can you say the writings of Paul are concocted? These are the most reliable texts ever written. This is all real history. We have found the archeology that backs up what was written. We found the cities, we have outside politicians and historians that verify the events in the Bible. We have 10,000 Jews who renounced their heritage 2 weeks after seeing the resurrected Christ. Do you know what it means to a Jew to renounce his heritage? You can’t begin to imagine what this means in their culture. This is all documented and verfiable. Go to the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England and see the John Ryland’s MS. Go to the British Museum and find the Codex Alexandrinus. Go to the Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris and see the Codex Ephraemi. Go to the Cambridge library and see the Codex Bezae. Sodom & Gommorah, Jericho, the pool of Bethesda, pool of Siloam, tower of Babel, city of Nazarath, Jacob’s well, Decapolis, the official government Census (I could go on…) have all been found by archeology. In fact, nothing in archeology has been found to contradict the accounts in the Bible. Archeology doesn’t prove the Bible is the word of God. What it does say is that there is a basis for credibility. Historians are not the ones saying obsurd things like Jesus never existed or was concocted. You must look at this the way an objective historian would; they don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. They are more like crime scene investigators. They follow a trail to get to the truth.
“These god myths were also recognized as a powerful means of controlling an uneducated peasant population;”
————-Again with the power and control issues…:-) Malcolm, we need moral government in our society. You have a misunderstanding of God; He wants us to personal wisdom. He wants us to think. Read the book of Proverbs. Read the first chapter of Romans in the Bible: http://www.BibleGateway.com
“education is eroding significantly the power-base of religions to the extent that in Sweden and Denmark (each with a highly educated population) over 80% are non-believers in god. ”
———-I don’t understand why you won’t blame individuals for what they choose to believe. Darwinism, Islam, Mormonism, terrible doctrines. Who’s fault is it they exist? The individual. Who’s fault is it they follow it? The individual. The only way to change a Muslim into a Christian is present the truth to them. We can’t run around killing each other or burning their books because of different beliefs. We must allow for arguements and debates…I can deal with the insults…that’s fine…I wish it wasn’t so, but I can handle it. People must be allowed the freedom to change and grow.
ps) Codex is the word used to describe “books” before they were called “books.”
August 28th, 2009 at 17:32
Dear Malcolm,
A challenge for you:
Pick as many “Alpha” questions as you’d like, and I will answer them.
Blessings, Miss Bubby
August 28th, 2009 at 17:34
Dear Malcolm,
I knew what you meant. I don’t think youre a jihadist. I think youre very intelligent.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:38
Dear Malcolm,
One more thing you said:
“Since the Mary/Jesus story is identical, but WITHOUT any contemporaneous documentation”
————–Historians have confirmed the 32 countries, 54 cities and 9 islands that Luke wrote in his accounts to have been written without a single mistake.
It sounds like you haven’t actually read the Bible. Have you?
August 28th, 2009 at 17:38
imissbubby
No wonder that you do not believe in evolution, you do not comprehend even the slightest smattering of what it is all about. Your problem is that as a creationist you only have about 6,500 years of earth history to contemplate.
Evolution is entirely governed by SMALL changes, but you cannot comprehend in your 6,500 year earth-span that it is the accumulation of these tiny changes over many hundreds of thousands of years before speciation occurs.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:47
imissbubby
You are getting more and more pathetic with your responses. Do go and buy a dictionary and check the meaning of CONTEMPORANEOUS used by me in 235.
Worse still, you are now refusing tto answer the difficult questions.
I have read the Bible and the Koran (and what boring works of fiction they are) So what if the writer of Luke managed to name all of these places without error? The writer of Luke did NOT know the fictional Jesus.
Be careful in your answers, I might issue a fatwa!!!
Malcolm
August 28th, 2009 at 18:20
Hi guys – imissbubby’s medication round must be due soon, methinks.
I note another religious nut has been caught:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6103102/Jaycee-Lee-Dugard-alleged-kidnapper-launches-bizarre-defence.html
Garrido says when his story is known, people will think it “heart-warming”.
No Garrido, you’re just a sick, religious, perverted nut.
August 28th, 2009 at 19:41
Dear Malcolm:
Do you know the difference between micro-evolution and macro-evolution? An example of macro-evolution would be proof that one species became another.
The example you gave was not an example of macro-evolution. It was an example of variation and adaption within the same species – Do you understand that? It was a change within the same species — we can prove this all day long. It was not one species becoming another — this has never been proven or observed.
“Evolution is entirely governed by SMALL changes, but you cannot comprehend in your 6,500 year earth-span that it is the accumulation of these tiny changes over many hundreds of thousands of years before speciation occurs.”
—————In your logic, there simply wasn’t enough time for life (as you see it) to have evolved. In your hypothesis, the Earth is 4.6 billion years old and life formed 3 billion years ago.
August 28th, 2009 at 21:33
imissbubby @239
Rubbish!
August 28th, 2009 at 21:43
Quedula:
You call it rubbish, I call it observable science.
I’m thinking about publishing a book called,
“The Darwinian Struggle Against Science.”
August 28th, 2009 at 21:47
Dear Malcolm,
Luke was a doctor who traveled with Paul (who experienced the resurrected Christ) and Peter (one of the 12 apostles.) He was recording history. As did Paul and Peter.
Youre starting to sound like that little guy from Iran who likes to deny Jewish history. Any relation?
August 28th, 2009 at 21:53
@ Quedula #240
I am not afraid of “the truth,” and I hope that you aren’t either. It has been my experience that evolution must hide behind assumptions, ad-hominem attacks and lawyers. It cannot be exposed to scrutiny, because it disintegrates.
August 28th, 2009 at 21:59
Dear Malcolm,
How about this guy Lyell, the “Father of Geology”, who wasn’t trained in geology. He was a lawyer. He said he pondered the idea that if he was going to discredit history to Moses (the Bible), without offending its believers, he would do it by making up his own history. What’s that all about?
Hm.
Charles Darwin (not a scientist)
Charles Lyell (not a scientist)
August 28th, 2009 at 22:06
Dear Richard, Malcolm, Pete, Quedula:
Can any of you explain why Lyell ignored the polystrate fossils?
Polystrate fossils are so called because they are buried vertically in the rock, cutting through several strata or layers of rock. Hence, “poly” for many, “strate” for the strata of rock. It cuts vertically through many layers.
It is obvious that this fossil plant had to have been buried rapidly. Any idea why he chose to ignore the evidence?
August 28th, 2009 at 22:13
Dear Malcolm:
As a follow-up to how the timeline on evolution cannot be true, here’s how it works:
One simple protein might be an assembly of 200 amino acids. So for each amino in the assembly, there is a 1/20 chance of randomly selecting the correct one. In our protein, we have 20200 different assembly combinations – and only one of those combinations is correct and will work.
Taking 20,000,000,000 (20 billion) years, and multiplying it by 365 days per year, 24 hours per day, 60 minutes per hour and 60 seconds per minute, you get: 630,720,000,000,000,000
seconds in 20 Billion years.
Remember – evolution has no intelligence to call upon to select the correct combination the first time, so it’s hit and miss.
So, dividing our available time into the number of combinations available, we would have to randomly try 15,854,895,991,882,293,252,156,265,854,896,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000
different combinations, every second, for twenty billion years, to produce one protein by unguided processes.
I wonder how many proteins you ate for breakfast this morning? Can you tell me what the math is for one of those proteins that are over 2,000 amino acids long?
Evolution requires an infinite amount of time, but an infinite creator God requires but the twinkling of an eye. Do you now see why, the complexity of life demands a creator?
August 28th, 2009 at 22:51
@imissbubby:
“Polystrate” fossils were debunked 150 years ago. Read and learn:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/trees.html
You are one of comparatively few Christians who actively denigrate the achievements of generations of geologists, archaeologists, paleontologists, biologists, dendrochronologists, biochemists, oceanographers, astronomers and physicists by saying they must all be wrong. And some people like you even describe them as evil.
Fortunately, most Christians are decent, intelligent people who have no problem with established fact.
Fotunately, you are in the ignorant minority.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:13
Dear imissbubby
I really wonder if there is any point in discussing any of these subjects with you any further.
You dance on a pin when when the going gets tough and dodge answering every major issue that is raised.
You know perfectly well that there are no contemporaneous accounts of Jesus’ life.
You know perfectly well that Luke had no first hand knowledge of Jesus’ life.
You know perfectly well that we are unable to directly observe speciation because of the time scale involved, but that DNA evidence, fossil records, radiometric dating evidence and the results from countless branches of science all support Darwin’s evolution as the best explanation we have for life on earth. As scientists, we keep an entirely open mind to new developments which may change our understanding of nature. We have no divine belief that Darwin was correct and that his conclusions are unchallengible or unchangeable, if we believed that we would call it faith not science. Your reference to lawyers is of course directed at the evolutionists who had to appoint lawyers as a result of the Kansas School Board attempt to get creationism taught in science. Evolution of course won the day since the creationists could not forward one scintilla of evidence that creationism is science. I dislike ad hominem attacks, but it is fair to criticize the person if the principles they espouse are logical fallacies such as intelligent design and its progenitor creationism.
The Church of England and the Roman Catholic church all now accept evolution (even though it goes against biblical teachings). The only scientists that argue against evolution are those sponsored by Templeton and those that have had the religion virus implanted into their brain, just like I had as a child (luckily I had a friend called Norton Macafee who successfully replaced the god virus with atheism at age eight). The US is to have Dr Francis Collins as director of the NIH, he is an accomplished scientist and he is an evangelical Christian who accepts Darwinian evolution and rejects intelligent design and creationism as portrayed in biblical works.
I would love to hear of scrutiny causing the evolution theory to disintegrate, I will bet that did not come from any mainstream sources.
So please, as a welcome outsider to our site, if you wish to continue participating, you must answer our questions and stop prevaricating with quotes from Wikipaedia et al.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:19
@imissbubby:
It’s clear you’ve never studied intracellular physiology!
Simply multiplying the number of amino acids by theoretical combinations with a calculator might keep a ten-year old amused for a while, but it doesn’t present a cogent argument!
Many of the amino acids are unable to combine with each other under normal conditions, so those odds are are drastically reduced.
But the biggest flaw in your post is that you seem to be unaware of the role of DNA in protein synthesis. The whole point of the DNA/mRNA coding is to ensure the right sequence of amino acids in the new protein, according to the 3-base code. That’s why, when you ate bacon this morning, the constituent amino acids from the pork were reassembled in your ribosomes into human protein according to your human DNA code.
Try reading something written by real scientists, rather than on dodgy creationist websites.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:20
Damn, I wrote 248 with the last one that I saw being 243, I missed all of the crap in between.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:23
Double damn. I was just about to make similar points to Richard when his response came up on Outlook, so I will save myself the time since I am knackered, Darwin and Christians have drained me today.
Goodnight all dog bless
August 28th, 2009 at 23:35
Have a good night Malcolm!
Don’t worry, those awfully nice nurses will be unplugging imissbubby’s PC any minute.
I can’t believe he used the old “polystrate tree” argument! Even most creationists know that argument was discredited some time back. Either imissbubby must be using some pretty old creationist websites, or he just couldn’t understand the geology!
He is a silly sod!
August 29th, 2009 at 6:31
imiissbubby@ 241, 243
I notice the quotation marks for “The truth”. You obviously have a very strange understanding of its meaning.
However when I say “rubbish” I mean it in the down-to-earth, everyday sense.
I am surprised that Malcolm, Richard W, et al, are bothering to dignify your rantings with intelligent, considered responses.
You don’t deserve them.
August 29th, 2009 at 14:09
Hi imissbubby
Alpha questions, answers none from god. From you?
Why did you send two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha’s bald head. 2 Kings 2:23-24?
Why did US President Thomas Jefferson say “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man”?
My neighbour is an atheist and furthermore he WORKS ON SUNDAYS. How should I kill him?
My son was rude to me today. Should I stone him to death as commanded in the bible?
My daughter cursed me this morning, what method should I use to kill her? Leviticus 20:9-12. Good god?!?!
My good caring atheist wife of 22 years died 4 years ago aged 43. Was this your punishment for not believing in you good god?!?! Was this your punishment to me for not believing in you?
Her organs were used to help others, why is she in hell? Can Myra Hindley, Ian Brady, Harold Shipman and Fred West in heaven see her burning in the furnace?
Brady and Hindley tortured children then murdered them whilst they made audio recordings. Dr Shipman murdered some 200+ patients. West and his wife murdered young females and buried them in their house in walls and floors. All are/were religious and after conviction became even closer to god.
When my religious wife was ill and then died age forty-two, many prayed. She died a short while later. Were the prayers not genuine? Were the prayers facing the wrong way? Were there not enough prayers? Were the prayers not co-ordinated? Were the prayers not loud enough? Were the prayers of the wrong type?
August 30th, 2009 at 15:05
I go away fro a couple of day and all hell breaks loose, oops sorry, I shouldn’t have used mythology.
“LoL. We can’t even create a grain of sand and you think we’re on the verge of creating humans? LoL!!! We cant create anything; we merely rearrange what is already here.”
–>Where on earth did you read that we are about the create humans, that’s just your imagination running riot again. What IS about to be created is life at it’s most basic, a single cell, which is where it all began, but where as we are descendants of that original cell, this is a whole new one.
“Youre already following what the God of Bible says is right and wrong. Don’t commit murder, don’t steal, don’t lie. You have this inside of you. Don’t you want to know where it came from?”
I know where it came from, and you already answered it, from within me, or more specifically, from reasoned thought based on what is acceptable in the society in which I live. Had I been living in an Amazonian tribe I might be free to kill and eat any person I want without fear of persecution and have my actions accepted by my peers. Does it not occur to you that there are people in the world that don’t even know what a bible is, and they manage to live within the dictates of a book written by men who never knew that these tribes existed.
The bible wielding missionaries that brought the god to the ’savages’ wrecked established societies they had lived with for many hundreds, perhaps thousands of years.
Those same christians used the ‘Convert or Kill’ technique that they now decry when it’s called Jihad.
August 30th, 2009 at 15:33
Penn & Teller: Vatican Bullshit
Unreasonable Faith
http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/08/30/penn-teller-vatican-bullshit/
_____
August 30th, 2009 at 17:51
Either our friend imissbubby has gone to ground or she/he is too occupied with getting a top-up of religious fervour and finding answers to our questions at Ken Hams creationist museum.
Penn and Teller really do serve us well; what a shame that they, along with Randi, will not be at the London Amazing Meeting. How many of you will be there? I have a spare ticke that I am willing to sell to imissbubby.
Enjoy the rest of the holiday weekend.
Malcolm
August 30th, 2009 at 17:58
Bugger imissbubby! – it’d be wasted on him/her!
I’ll buy your ticket Malcolm – i missed out on the original sale and draws for those tickets!
August 31st, 2009 at 22:05
Treble damn.
Ticket reserved for you Richard at third the price I was going to charge imissbubby.
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:18
Help us decide: Cast vote
for FFRF’s next bus sign
Don’t miss the View Suggestions
link at foot of page
Freedom From Religion Foundation
http://ffrf.org/busballot/
_____
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:03
Hi Adam
I would love to join FFRF, but why will they not accept Paypal from UK?
Slogans:
If you don’t preach to my children I promise not to think in your church.
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man – Thomas Jefferson
September 5th, 2009 at 12:30
Hi everyone (including imissbubbhy; where are you hiding)
Just received this email from my good friend the Psychic Surgeon, Indigo Child Specialist and Founder of the A.B.E Healing method.
Could be a good laugh if one can put up with the music, the fruitcakes should be interesting!!!
Speling and grammer by the sychyk/dj Gary, website at about the same levle. I have emailed Gary to ask why his psychic powers do not alert him to textual errors.
“Hey Guys!
As of Tuesday 8th September I am launching a internet Radio station. The website is –
http://www.abefm.moonfruit.com
check it out!
If you can’t make it for the lauch show tune in to one of our other great shows coming up!
Best of all it’s all free!
Listen with glues ears or just have it as very nice background noise!
Love and Light Always
Gary Mannion”
September 6th, 2009 at 1:46
My friend Gary has replied:
Hi there Malcolm
My spelling is not the best. I must say I’ve never tried to Psychically check my spelling!
Love and Light Always
Gary Mannion
September 9th, 2009 at 1:10
Dear Pete,
You said:
“What IS about to be created is life at it’s most basic, a single cell”
————Again, I say, we can’t even create a grain of sand and you think we’re going to “create” a single cell. We can’t create anything. We only rearrange what is already here. That is why what is here is called “creation.” That is also why the weight of the Earth doesn’t change; because we cannot create anything.
“I know where it came from, and you already answered it, from within me, or more specifically, from reasoned thought based on what is acceptable in the society in which I live.”
————A herd mentality does not explain why you have a sense of justice inside of you.
“Does it not occur to you that there are people in the world that don’t even know what a bible is, and they manage to live within the dictates of a book written by men who never knew that these tribes existed.”
—————-You just made my point. How is it that they manage to live within the dictates of that Book?
“Those same christians used the ‘Convert or Kill’ technique that they now decry when it’s called Jihad.”
—————Really? And what were the names of Christian missionaries that did that?
September 9th, 2009 at 1:33
Dear Malcolm: You asked:
“Why did US President Thomas Jefferson say “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man”?”
————–You’ll have to ask him.
“My neighbour is an atheist and furthermore he WORKS ON SUNDAYS. How should I kill him?”
————–I don’t know.
“My good caring atheist wife of 22 years died 4 years ago aged 43. Was this your punishment for not believing in you good god?!?! Was this your punishment to me for not believing in you?
Her organs were used to help others, why is she in hell?”
—————No one is in hell yet. She’s in where the rich man went in the book of Luke. She’s there because she chose not to be with Jesus in Heaven.
“Can Myra Hindley, Ian Brady, Harold Shipman and Fred West
————-I don’t know who these people are…
in heaven see her burning in the furnace?”
—————-Yes. If you read the book of Luke (16:19-31) the people in “Shoel” (the grave where its very hot) like the rich man, can see the people like Lazarus across the divide.
“Brady and Hindley tortured children then murdered them whilst they made audio recordings. Dr Shipman murdered some 200+ patients. West and his wife murdered young females and buried them in their house in walls and floors. All are/were religious and after conviction became even”
—————–I don’t know these cases and don’t know what is the evidence of their real beliefs. What I can say is that if they truely repented (and ONLY God knows if they did) God forgave them and they will spend eternity with Him. This kind of scandalous grace is what angers you atheists, I know. But that is the goodness of God. God can forgive anything if you really mean it.
“When my religious wife was ill and then died age forty-two, many prayed. She died a short while later. Were the prayers not genuine?”
————–I don’t know.
“Were the prayers facing the wrong way? Were there not enough prayers? Were the prayers not co-ordinated? Were the prayers not loud enough? Were the prayers of the wrong type?”
—————-You’re treating God as if He is some type of natural cause, rather than as a personal, rational Being. You’re attempting to test one aspect of God, His omnipotence. You were asking God for what YOU thought was best and that is a good test for a genie, but not for God. A machine does what we think is best.
What do you think it would be like to be a spiritual being, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving who understands immediately and completely all the ramifications of any action throughout all time and for eternity and takes into account in any decision, all these ramifications, including the physical and spiritual good that would result, not just in regard to any single person praying, but in regard to everyone and everything in the present and the indefinite future who would be affected?
Remember that prayer is a request. It may granted or denied. Whatever His decision is, we must trust it was for the best because of who He is and what He can see.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:37
Dear Richard, You totally missed the point. You said,
“But the biggest flaw in your post is that you seem to be unaware of the role of DNA in protein synthesis. The whole point of the DNA/mRNA coding is to ensure the right sequence of amino acids in the new protein, according to the 3-base code. That’s why, when you ate bacon this morning, the constituent amino acids from the pork were reassembled in your ribosomes into human protein according to your human DNA code.”
——————Uh, I was talking about the *origin of life* and the *origin of the original proteins,* not how life assembles proteins today. In the beginning, there was no DNA yet, because proteins are needed in the assembly of DNA, and proteins make up the machinery that uses the DNA to make make more proteins! Further to that, DNA by itself is completely and utterly useless without all of these incredibly complex systems (made of proteins) to make use of the DNA.
The point was “How did the first proteins arise,” and has absolutely nothing to do with how incredibly complex, well designed systems produceproteins today. You either did not comprehend what I wrote, or youre deliberately being deceitful.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:57
Dear Malcolm: You said,
“You know perfectly well that we are unable to directly observe speciation because of the time scale involved”
————-It’s never been observed or tested or proven. Why do believe this? There is only proof that species reproduce after their own kind. I’m sticking with the facts. So let’s be perfectly clear: When you start talking about speciation, you’ve left the realm of science and flown into religion.
“but that DNA evidence,”
————-What DNA evidence? There are no beneficial random mutations. Random mutations have their genes scrambled and that results in a loss, not a gain.
“fossil records,”
————-Fossils cannot possibly tell you if one bone is related to another. A bone cannot tell you what it gave birth to or to whom it is related.
“radiometric dating evidence”
————-What radiometric dating evidence?
“and the results from countless branches of science all support Darwin’s evolution as the best explanation we have for life on earth.”
————–I’m still waiting for your proof of all of this. The only thing I see are animals reproducing after their own kind, fossil records that show humans fully formed as deep as we can dig them up and nothing in between. I see that we cannot create life from non-life (Law of Biogenesis) and I see that everything is in a state of decay (2nd Law of Thermodynamics.) And please don’t try to tell me that the sun’s energy reverses entropy — adding energy to anything that cannot use it will only destroy it. Look what adding lots of sunshine does to the leather apolstry in your car in the summer.
“As scientists, we keep an entirely open mind to new developments which may change our understanding of nature. We have no divine belief that Darwin was correct and that his conclusions are unchallengible or unchangeable, if we believed that we would call it faith not science.”
————–Great!
“Your reference to lawyers is of course directed at the evolutionists who had to appoint lawyers as a result of the Kansas School Board attempt to get creationism taught in science. Evolution of course won the day since the creationists could not forward one scintilla of evidence that creationism is science.”
—————Yes, well now, we have a lot of evidence, don’t we? So, were all the Christians stupid during those years when the scientists were wrong?
“The Church of England and the Roman Catholic church all now accept evolution (even though it goes against biblical teachings). The only scientists that argue against evolution are those sponsored by Templeton and those that have had the religion virus implanted into their brain, just like I had as a child (luckily I had a friend called Norton Macafee who successfully replaced the god virus with atheism at age eight). The US is to have Dr Francis Collins as director of the NIH, he is an accomplished scientist and he is an evangelical Christian who accepts Darwinian evolution and rejects intelligent design and creationism as portrayed in biblical works.”
—————Well, you might believe something just because a lot of other people do, but I think for myself and do my own research to make a decision.
“I would love to hear of scrutiny causing the evolution theory to disintegrate, I will bet that did not come from any mainstream sources.”
—————Research the origin of language inside of a single cell.
“So please, as a welcome outsider to our site, if you wish to continue participating, you must answer our questions and stop prevaricating with quotes from Wikipaedia et al.”
—————-I haven’t wiki’d anything. You might find it hard to believe that I know all the stuff I’m talking about.
September 9th, 2009 at 2:01
Dear Richard @ re: 215
“Most Christians I know don’t have a problem with evolution.”
—————Like you, they must not be keeping up with the latest science.
September 9th, 2009 at 2:15
Dear Malcolm, RE #230
“Another one for you; the whole virgin birth of a god, three wise men, death, resurrection/Jesus story is an EXACT copy of the Osiris myth of several thousand years BCE. ”
—————-You’ve got the myths wrong: Mithras is allegedly the one born of the virgin, Osiris was the one they fantasized rose from the dead. Here’s the facts: Mithras was not born of a virgin, but emerged from a rock and there is not textual evidence of his death, so there could be no resurrection. There is no record Osiris rose from the dead. Instead he became a god of the netherworld. He’s a dead god, always depicted as a mummified king. The Egyptian religion had no concept of resurrection, only of immortality beyond the grave. These are two entirely different concepts. And allow me to remind you: These were stories that started with “Once upon a time….” The Bible records history and include vivid details of things observed personally or chronicled information from the people who were actually there.
“realize that it is a complete myth concocted by men”
————–Because secular historians and archeologists tell me these places, people and things existed.
September 9th, 2009 at 2:46
Dear Malcolm: You asked
“Please tell me why, when the “flood” occured in 2348 BCE (a not insignificant event), it was not noticed at the time by those documenting the Egyptian 5th and the 6th dynasties?”
————-The first settlers of Egypt migrated from the Euphrates River (the site of the Tower of Babel) where the languages were confused after the Flood.
September 9th, 2009 at 8:55
imissbubby @ 271
“The Bible records history and include vivid details of things observed personally or chronicled information from the people who were actually there.”
No it doesn’t.
September 9th, 2009 at 14:55
Dear Quedula,
You said the Bible doesn’t record history.
Would you like me to name a few of the historical events verified by outside sources that it recorded?
September 9th, 2009 at 15:34
imissbubby @274
No, not much, I know the kind of stuff you will produce.
Let’s get this straight. Except in mythology:-
a) Virgins don’t give birth.
b) Dead men don’t walk.
We have come a long way in the last two thousand years, no thanks to religion, yet the possibilities for further discoveries appear endless. One thing is certain the mysteries of existence won’t be unravelled by endlessly pouring over ancient texts and praying to Invisible Magic Friends.
As Robert Heinlein said about theology “it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn’t there, theologians can convince themselves of anything.”
How very true.
September 9th, 2009 at 22:53
Dear Quedula,
Which one is more irrational?
Me believing in a omnipotent God that could produce a supernatural conception and resurrection or you
claiming that
NOBODY:
a.) Spontaneously assembled DNA
b.) Evolved body parts before the whole complex biological system was in place.
September 9th, 2009 at 22:54
Dear Quedula:
The Word of God is eternal. It doesn’t matter when it was written.
September 10th, 2009 at 0:35
Hey imissbubby!
So tell us about those ‘polystrate’ trees again!
Lol!
September 10th, 2009 at 6:54
imissbubby @276 &277
Wow, I’m left gasping at the sophistication of your arguments!
Enjoy your life.
September 13th, 2009 at 18:29
I don’t understand how your paper can continue to publish lies about science:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/5204104/Pictures-Otter-like-fossil-shows-how-seals-went-from-land-to-sea.html
No fossil is buried with a birth certificate. It is impossible to link fossils into chains of cause and effect in any VALID way. To take a fossil and claim its represents a lineage is not scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that has the same validity as a fairy tale. Amusing, but not scientific.
September 13th, 2009 at 19:21
imissbubby@280
You’ve gone over the top now imissbubby. You ARE a troll.
Well you certainly strung us along for a long time.
September 13th, 2009 at 22:19
When a computer is infected with a virus it fails to correctly process the inputs and consequently churns out nonsense; the same applies to the religion/supernatural viruses implanted into human brains as is obviously the case with imissbubby. I presume that in the case of imissbubby, the viruses have had many decades to totally infect the whole brain to the point where it is now incapable of processing any scientific fact and is only capable of disgorging pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo.
As far as I am concerned, all discussion with him/her is now ended as it is a totally fruitless exercise.
September 13th, 2009 at 23:54
Agreed Malcolm!
Fruitless to the point of nuttiness!
September 14th, 2009 at 6:32
@282 & 283
C’mon chaps, where’s your christian charity (whoops – wrong expression)? Kindest to call him/her a troll.
By the way how do you interpret his name? You know what “bubbys” a childish name for? Might explain a lot!
September 18th, 2009 at 12:21
A link for imissbubby:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8259902.stm
September 18th, 2009 at 19:16
I’d just like to draw your attention to this:
“The Atheist’s Guide To Christmas” is the UK’s first atheist charity book, featuring contributions from Richard Dawkins, Derren Brown, Ben Goldacre, Simon Singh, Claire Rayner, David Baddiel, Charlie Brooker and many more. It’s been edited by Ariane Sherine, the creator of the hugely successful Atheist Bus Campaign. It’s out on Oct 1st and all royalties are going to the HIV charity Terrence Higgins Trust. Please pre-order now:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atheists-Guide-Christmas-Ariane-Sherine/dp/0007322615/
The Atheist’s Guide is a mix of humorous and poignant contributions from over 40 various prominent atheists. It’ll make an ideal Christmas gift for your atheist friends. Your religious friends will love it too, or, even better, it’ll put them in a foul mood for Xmas! So a win-win situation! More info on the Facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=128903634833
Your support will not only maintain the profile of atheism in the UK, it will also help raise funds for the very worthy THT charity. Please note that the contributors, and Ms Sherine, have waived payment for their considerable input into the “Guide”.
Thank you, and please pass this message on to everyone you know!!
[My apologies if you already know about the Guide!]
September 29th, 2009 at 5:39
Dear Quedula:
You sent me a link that shows a big t-rex and a little t-rex they named “Raptorex.”
Do you think this is proof of macro-evolution?
I hope not.
This is proof of micro-evolution: change within a species.
The equivalent of a Great Dane and a Chihuahua. Two dogs…..of the same species.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:42
Dear Richard W:
Can I quote you on this?
“Your religious friends will love it too, or, even better, it’ll put them in a foul mood for Xmas!”
September 29th, 2009 at 5:49
Dear Quedula and Malcolm:
I’m going to use both of your links as examples in my next study:
A man sees two mice of different color and thinks this is proof of Darwinism.
Another man sees two dinosaurs of different sizes and thinks this is proof of Darwinism.
Correct me if I’m wrong about your assumptions because otherwise I’m going to show these as examples of how you don’t need faith to believe in a Creator.
You only need eyes that can see and a brain that works.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:03
imissbubby@287
Look up the difference between “selective breeding” and “natural selection”. Its quite straightforward. Also look up “Occam’s Razor”.
I wouldn’t like to be held responsible for misleading your audience.
September 29th, 2009 at 14:16
Dear Quedula:
The Darwinian theory relies on random (beneficial) mutations as its biological method. A beneficial mutuation has never been observed. We have, however, observed many, many non-beneficial mutuations: a scrambling of the genetic code that produced something lame.
I’ll repeat myself again: Natural selection is not a biological change agent. Its a selection process for traits being conducted by who, exactly?
Guess what the common ancestor of big dogs, little dogs and medium dogs is?
A dog.
I’m glad you brought up Occam’s Razor, “Of several acceptable explanations [for a phenomenon], the most accurate and well-ordered theory of explanation is preferable, provided that it does not contradict the observed facts.”
I’ve looked at all the evidence: fossil, biological, testable, observable and conclude that dogs are a created animal that evolve after their own species. This does not contradict the observable facts.
You, on the other hand, have a lot of splainin’ to do. You want to pick on the Chihuahua example? How about a Great Dane and a Jack Russell Terrier? Common ancestor?
A dog.
September 29th, 2009 at 14:44
Hey imissbubby!
Seen any “polystrate” fossils recently?
Lol!
September 29th, 2009 at 15:53
@291
Natural selection is a slow, continual process conducted by the environment. It is too slow to see it happening. You should read “The Selfish Gene” by Richard Dawkins.
I find it quite staggering imssbubby that you have no insight into the fundamental fallacy at the heart of your method of inquiry. You start with the assumption that there IS a supernatural creator and then you interpret and manipulate the evidence gathered by scientific research (not you) to fit in with or at least not contradict this assumption. Scientists on the other hand examine the evidence they collect and develop a theory to explain it. and surely they are the best people to do this. It is even possible that one day scientists might find some kind of evidence for the creator you so blithely assume; but they haven’t yet.
September 29th, 2009 at 18:23
God is real
peace out!!!
September 30th, 2009 at 16:09
Dear Quedula,
No. I didn’t start with the fallacy there was a Creator. In fact, I was an atheist, like you! I looked at the evidence and said, there’s no proof of Darwinism; only the HOPE that one day, it will be proven. Why am I believing in this?
What I do know is this:
a.) The Law of Cause and Effect is true. If the universe is the effect, what is the cause? The cause had to be outside of space & time. Something does not come from nothing. To say that “something” came from “nothing” is another way of describing magic. If a horse suddenly appears in my living room, that’s “something” from “nothing.” I don’t believe in magic.
b.) DNA cells have language in them. The simplest cell is more complex than a rocketship. Darwin had no way of knowing this. No one did at that time. His theory has been debunked; its old science. We’ve discovered there’s language in the simplest cell. What is the origin of that language? Who or what wrote it? A mind is required to write language.
c.) The fossil record lists only fully formed humans in its discovery no matter how far down we dig. If Darwinism were true, I should be walking through boneyards of transisitional fossils.
d.) Random mutations have never produced beneficial forms. They only scramble the existing gene code and produce something lame that cannot be reproduce itself.
So, I’m asking you…why are you holding on to this old technology of Darwinism? Who cares what Richard Dawkins says. I don’t know what his agenda is. All I care about is what does the evidence show?
Shall I send you a horse & buggy for Christmas to go along with your knowledge of science?
September 30th, 2009 at 16:12
Darwinism is a philosophy based on fortune and luck.
It is not science.
September 30th, 2009 at 16:38
Dear Richard @ 292
Yes, I have. You can too. Next time you’re on holiday, visit:
1.) Joggins Cliffs, Nova Scotia. The Joggins cliffs are even in the process of becoming a World Heritage Site.
2.) Northern and eastern Yellowstone Park (Montana & Wyoming). Multiple layers of vertical trees have been found in the “Eocene” Absaroka Volcanics since the late 1800s.
5.) Ginkgo Petrified Forest State Park in Washington, just north of Vantage on Interstate 90 along the Columbia River. Petrified trees that cut through more than one layer of strata. There are over 200 species of trees from divergent climatic zones—ranging from tropical jungles to the northern plains of Canada and Alaska. Tropical and subtropical trees include eucalyptus, teak, breadfruit, cinnamon, and gum.
6.) Geodetic Hills of Axel Heiberg Island, 80°N latitude in the Queen Elizabeth Islands of northeast Canada. Mummified vertical trees and leaf litters were discovered at a number of levels within weakly developed coal seams in the Geodetic Hills of Axel Heiberg Island. The paleoflora tree is exceptionally well preserved and well studied. Some of the wood is not petrified and can be cut with an ax and burned.
7.) Alaska – 7 km north of Sutton. 80 km northeast of Anchorage.
How do you, Richard, explain trees that have been standing upright for “millions of years”? Logic would say, “Hm. They must have been buried rapidly under some kind of recent, catastrophic event.” What do you say? If you don’t understand what they are just say so. I won’t hold it against you. So please, no cutting and pasting from Talking Origins. I’m interested in your opinion, not your web browsing abilities.
October 1st, 2009 at 6:10
@294 God is Great
Dream on!
October 1st, 2009 at 6:19
re. imissbubby
Does anyone know the emoticon for “tearing out one’s hair”? ;D