ASA Calls It For Us!
22.01.09 | Ariane |
The UK Advertising Standards Authority has ruled in our favour, decided not to investigate the 326 complaints about the Atheist Bus Campaign adverts, and closed the case. Hurray!
It’s a great day for freedom of speech in Britain. Atheists are officially allowed to be represented in public for the very first time (adverts are not pre-vetted by legal organisations before they go up) and a rational counter-view can now be visible at any point to balance out evangelical advertising.
Most people have recognised that ours is a gentle, philosophical advert aimed at non-believers and fearful agnostics. We’re really pleased that the ASA has recognised this too. At last, we have a truly free voice – and it feels good.
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:00
Nice. Now keep up the good work and make more ads. =)
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:19
Morons hate God
“Understanding God” is beyond the capacity of these new age morons who claim to be whole & sole defenders of scientific temper. Beating these mediocre atheists in the field of science is kid’s play….
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:24
Samir, you silly billy.
Atheists don’t hate God. They just don’t believe God exists. With your terrible lack of understanding of what atheists actually are, I think you’re the only one engaging in “kid’s play”.
January 22nd, 2009 at 13:14
It’s amazing how Steven Green STILL managed to see this as a partial victory for Christian Voice – read their press release, it’s very amusing!
@Samir
This campaign isn’t about hating god…it’s about raising awareness of the alternatives and responding to frankly threatening advertising already in the public domain to give people some reassurance that hey – they might not go to hell after all. I’m glad that you also think you understand God – please enlighten us!
January 22nd, 2009 at 13:53
Samir, why are we morons? Why do you think we hate your God? Does it matter to you so much that I am indifferent to religion? I’m fine with you being a believer, why am I a moron if I do not believe the same as you?
January 22nd, 2009 at 15:27
@Samir
What a moronic comment!
How can anyone hate something that doesn’t exist!
On the other hand it is sometimes difficult not to hate human beings who, religiously inspired, incite or perpetrate violence and murder.
January 22nd, 2009 at 17:54
Stephen Green’s reaction to the ASA’s rejection of his complaints about the Bus Ads has been an excellent example to all fair-minded people, on how we should take defeat with good grace and quiet dignity:
An extract from yesterday’s be-spittled Christian Vice website:
“ ‘On planet ASA, complaints from people of faith are not given the same weight as those from secularists. But what do you expect when the ASA Council is appointed and run by a campaigning homosexual, Chris. Lord, Smith of Finsbury?’ Last year the ASA ruled against Sandown Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster when the church published an advertisement ‘The Word of God against Sodomy’…”
My simple message to Mr Green, is: If you don’t like our atheist adverts, then start a campaign to fund your own message. And if you don’t want to engage in sodomy, just say “no thanks”, beforehand.
End of.
Later in the same, rather moist, Christian Vice article, Mr Green states:
“[The ASA] get 326 complaints and decide the bus ads were not causing serious or widespread offence. They get a mere 4 [complaints], and say Sandown’s [anti-sodomy] ad was [causing serious or widespread offence].”
Hmm, well maybe the ASA thought that many of the 326 complaints had been sent by an assortment of offensive, foamy-mouthed wingnuts, wackos, wannabes, and associate members of the NRA? I’m just thinking outside the box, of course…
Chill.
January 22nd, 2009 at 22:02
Guys, guys, guys. Let’s make one thing clear, the Scriptures say in John 3:16 that those who do not choose to believe in Yahushua (errantly called Jesus) will perish. To perish means a cessation of existence, to disappate, an annihilation (sorry for the harsh word) of one’s soul. From non-existence to existence to non-existence is the life of those who do not choose to be with Yahuweh (which means I Exist by the way). If man wants to believe that earth naturally evolved without the direction of a Creator and that man is simply another animal then its quite ironic for atheists because neither wanting to be with God nor knowing Him will get their wish, to die as an animal. God respects your decisions, if you don’t want to know Him then He doesn’t want to know you. To love requires a choice, and it also requires the choice not to love, hence there is evil in the world. Man has simply chosen to not love, rather than to heed God’s advice and love Him and one’s neighbour.
Remember, or rather should I say learn the truth: that the word “fire” mentioned in Scripture is used symbolically to define passing through judgment. Once passing through judgment there are two destinations for those who do not choose to be with God. 1) The overall majority of mankind will simply cease to exist once passing through judgment, these people simply went about life doing as they please, often being victims of errant doctrines, like most Muslims and Catholics and Atheists and, well you get the picture. 2) Eternal separation in the lightless Abyss, utter darkness and nothingness, but one’s soul still alive. This place is reserved for those who line themselves with Satan, wilfully leading the masses astray, teaching errant doctrines that are all contrary to the salvation found in Yahushua, as if there is another way to God. Fire as a physical torturous place is a deceptive and errant teaching started by the Catholic Church to line their own pockets by causing people to fear, the opposite of what Yahuweh actually wants.
But for those who are in Messiah there is no judgment for we are His children. Yahuweh is love, He is kind and forgiving. A loving Father that can be reached if you just ask with a sincere heart. In fact Scripture teaches that He personally walked the earth seven times, one of those times He appeared as Yahushua (Yahuweh as a man) and one is still future when He returns at the end of the 6th day. In order for us to live in His presence for eternity we must have His Spirit living in us. And this requires acknowledging one’s sin, something of which atheists are too proud to do.
Eternal life is a gift, those who do not accept it will perish, ceasing to exist, neither knowing life nor remembering to have ever lived. Don’t be fooled by the Catholic Church and most mainstream Christian churches, but find Truth in Yahushua, His Name means Yahuweh is Salvation or simply put Yah-Saves.
January 22nd, 2009 at 22:42
I do apologise if my first post #8 wasn’t exactly based upon the initial heading. But I’ve noticed a lot of Scripture (Bible) passages pasted around the site, but being completely quoted out of context and without a thorough knowledge of Scripture. But guys, God doesn’t want you to fear death, He justs wants you to realise that one’s choices have consequences and He fully respects your decision not to choose Him.
January 23rd, 2009 at 0:54
But Matthew, it is not a question of not choosing god – I simply do not believe that there is such a thing and the supernatural ideal of such is irrelevant to me. There is no choice.
And perhaps interesting for one of faith, I really don’t fear death and nor should anyone – it is the one inevitable thing in life – perfectly human one might say.
January 23rd, 2009 at 0:57
@Matthew
While I respect your opinions and beliefs, I don’t see any reason to treat the bible differently to any book on my shelves. As such, what you have said doesn’t have much meaning to me except as a story. I don’t mean to be insulting, it’s just how I think about these things. Maybe it’s how I’ve been trained – as a scientist – but I can’t help thinking ‘but where’s the evidence for all of these remarkable claims?’ whenever I come across analysis of the scriptures used to make a point. Sure, you could say that these things require faith and so evidence just isn’t relevent, but if that is the case, can’t I equally have faith in anything? How can you know what you have faith in is true?
Just for the record, I’m with Prof Dawkins when it comes to atheism, I believe in god as much as I believe in santa clause. I’m 99.9999999999999999% sure he doesn’t exist but know I can’t ever be certain. Such is rationality.
January 23rd, 2009 at 1:59
Matthew:
“…But guys, God doesn’t want you to fear death, He justs wants you to realise that one’s choices have consequences and He fully respects your decision not to choose Him.”
So, bad news if we don’t choose your (Matthew’s) particular God.
But how do you know you’re believing in the One True God?
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:06
Chris, there really is no need to respect opinions & belief when they are based on utter twaddle.
January 23rd, 2009 at 12:37
Chris:
I’m glad you’re a scientist, you might be interested in reading Gerald Schroeder’s (an MIT Prof) book called Science of God. It really puts Genesis under a microscope. It really boggles my mind how some Christians believe in a literal 6 day creation account followed by the last 6000 years of man’s history in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. I wouldn’t believe in Yahweh (the God mentioned in the Bible) if it was proven wrong in the areas of Science, History, Prophecy and Spirituality, in any area actually. A great book is Yada Yahweh by Craig Winn, it puts the entire Bible under a serious microscope, into every single word (in the original languages of course) – but most people don’t enjoy his book, even Christians don’t because it exposes many of their errant doctrines, his previous book called Prophet of Doom which exposes Islam for what it really is is especially disliked in the Muslim world.
The thing is the Church require blind faith, and that’s not a good thing, hence why atheists simply can’t accept it. Most Churches fit nicely into Hosea 6:4! Even the word church is based on the Greek words of circus and circle (hint of sun-god worship), go figure? I don’t blame you for the way you think, as it turns out I’ve come to the knowledge that God wants us to use our brains, see if He’s telling the truth or not. He actually wants us to know with certainty that He exists, and then with that certainty we trust Him to provide eternal salvation as promised.
Yahweh is about free choice, if He just put everything in one’s face then it would leave us with no choice. God is Pro-Choice and Pro-Life, but obviously against abortion in the sense of this term. Those people who really want to know Yahweh will find Him and He will answer if we ask.
Christmas is so pagan it’s unbelievable, the whole of Christianity has been fooled by Catholic traditions which are based upon the Babylonian sun-god religion. Even the words “the Lord” are the title and name of the Babylonian sun-god called Baal. In fact the Name Yahweh exists in the originals, God wants us to call upon Him by Name, like we do friends and family, and not like we’re addressing some high and unreachable God. Catholics want us to submit in worship but Yahweh actually requests we walk with Him, big difference.
For the record, my wife’s an atheist!
January 23rd, 2009 at 13:45
Richard:
You could say bad news, yes
By analysing other beliefs one can determine which are speaking the truth and which aren’t. At the end of the day there can only be one way. I can’t stand the saying “there are many ways to God” because that means that God is confused, how can polar opposite ways such as Atheism, Christianity and Islam all result in eternal life with God???
As I mentioned in Comment #12 (God from the Bible) wants us to use our brains to figure this out, put His Word under a microscope, an unbiased microscope if possible. Atheists assume most Christians actually understand the Word, especially when it comes to the Genesis creation account, but most Christians haven’t the faintest idea and are stuck in their mindsets. Atheists need to go out an objectively study the Scriptures, a task not many have the time and patience for, especially when it comes to digging into the original Hebrew. Through an objective study we can come to the conclusion that God exists.
January 23rd, 2009 at 14:23
Atheists need to go out an objectively study the Lord of the Rings, a task not many have the time and patience for, especially when it comes to digging into the original edition. Through an objective study we can come to the conclusion that Gandalf exists.
January 23rd, 2009 at 14:38
Matthew – I have to disagree with your notion that “many paths” do not make sense.
I could take the easy way out and just quote the Bhagavad Gita on this and assert it has the same authority as your bible. After all, why not?
What. in your opinion is God? Exactly? Bearded man in sky? Vague fuzzy god-ness? Can you define Him/Her/It/They? All you have is what presents itself to your mind, which if any of the theistic religions is right must be a tiny subset of what “God” is.
I think the only difference we can ask is whether the type of belief that says that all humans are sinful and must be saved is better or worse than, say, the belief that all humans are inherently divine and just need to find this. Whichever way you look at it the direction of change is the same. The difference seems to be in what each of these beliefs encourages you to think about others. I prefer the idea of humans being inherently divine – all of us being capable of good within ourselves. I know real life is actually quite complex with a real mix.
Why are we arguing this anyway? Where is the real proof that any form of god exists, whether Jehova or Brahman? All we can know is that certain patterns in life seem to work. There are certain ideas that actually seem common across religions if you look in the right places and I believe stand independently of religion.
Surely just caring for others, not being greedy, all these things are more important than which if any god you worship.
January 23rd, 2009 at 15:05
Matthew
Why do you think the people who wrote the bible thousands of years ago were particularly well qualified to know about “god”.
January 23rd, 2009 at 15:17
@quedula
Actually I think you so need to respect peoples right to an opinion on this, as long as that opinion isn’t directly infringing on your or other peoples rights. i.e. if belief in a god is a personal thing that only affects you – why not? Twaddle or not, it’s an opinion. When however it affects national decision making like who can get a place in a state run school – that is a different matter.
@Matthew
You’ll have to forgive my lack of knowledge of the Bible (or any other religious doctrine for that matter), your references to say ‘Hosea 6:4′ are lost on me I’m afraid. One day, I really need to read them all so I can further understand these discussions. That aside, firstly – I disagree that Christianity and Islam are polar opposites. Why so you think that’s the case? Surely the Koran and Bible share rather a large amount of material as they’re both Abrahamic religions. We certainly do agree though when you say ‘The thing is the Church require blind faith, and that’s not a good thing’, but this seems at odds with the rest of your comment about how you came ‘to the knowledge that God wants us to use our brains, see if He’s telling the truth or not. He actually wants us to know with certainty that He exists, and then with that certainty we trust Him to provide eternal salvation as promised’. How exactly did you acquire this knowledge with any degree of certainty?
—
Finally, the development of the rules of society that are enshrined in many religions from non-religious roots has always seemed pretty clear to me. So imagine you live in a tribe, competing with other tribes for the same resources. By deciding as a tribe that it’s a good idea not to kill others (except during tribal warfare) is beneficial to everyone in the tribe. Sure – you lose the freedom to kill your neighbour and steal their possessions, but that loss is far outweighed by the lower risk of your neighbour killing you! And of course, the whole tribe benefits from this agreement, meaning it will be more successful than it’s neighbours (who are too busy killing each other to defend themselves) and expand, spreading the idea with them. If you look at the basic moral rules we live by, in the end, they exist for selfish reasons.
January 23rd, 2009 at 15:40
quedula:
I think that was a perfectly reasonable question.
Just because a book was written several hundred years ago, or even longer, doesn’t make it more meaningful than if it had been written last week.
Matthew:
You’re giving far too much credit to one dusty old tome. People have been inventing belief-systems throughout history, then writing about them. It’s a means of controlling others with menaces.
January 23rd, 2009 at 15:52
this is very go0d way to make relegion quite light!-ultra light-!!!
January 23rd, 2009 at 20:44
[...] Toronto. It emulates the very successful Atheist Campaign started in the UK, and which has recently enjoyed a victory that will ensure its ability to continue [...]
January 24th, 2009 at 22:38
Some questions, Matthew.
Glad to see you accept humans evolved extremely late in Earth’s history, so if it’s assumed your god exists…
Why did he create a planet full of pain and suffering, then blame it on us? Afterall, it had nothing to do with ‘man’s fall’ if man wasn’t even around.
Seeing as we haven’t inherited any ‘original sin’, what was the point of Jesus’ death? Not to redeem us from that, obviously.
If your god is against abortion, why did he create a world in which miscarriages would kill even more babies?
January 24th, 2009 at 23:31
David Aaronovitch, Julian Baggini, Ophelia Benson,
Paul Berman, Colin Blakemore, Alain de Botton,
Marcus Chown, Nick Cohen, David Colquhoun,
Heather Couper, Ben Goldacre, A.C. Grayling,
Johann Hari, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Holloway,
Howard Jacobson, Susan Jacoby, Oliver Kamm,
Kenan Malik, Jonathan Meades, Douglas Murray,
Phil Plait, James Randi, Marcus du Sautoy,
Simon Singh, Peter Tatchell, Laurie Taylor,
Francis Wheen, and many, many more.
On the UK’s very
own secular humanist
Little Atoms Radio Show
If the show has a dominant and recurring theme, then it coalesces around the ideas of the Enlightenment, by which we mean freedom of expression, free inquiry, empirical rationalism, scepticism, the scientific method, secular humanism and liberal democracy. These ideas find their antithesis in superstition, religious fundamentalism, fanaticism, medievalism, totalitarianism, censorship and conspiracy theory.
“Shining as a beacon of hope
for all rationalists, atheists
and humanists out there.”
- The Independent
http://www.littleatoms.com/
_____
January 25th, 2009 at 13:36
Reply to comment #3 :
idiot Amy,
What atheists actually are ? Ha, Ha, Ha. They are nothing. Atheists are those who misappropriate funds through silly projects like “Large Hedron Collider”…
January 25th, 2009 at 13:43
Samir: Just visited your site and you write:
“I am completely isolated from my vicinity. Most of the persons around me think that I am a crackpot.”
Enough said.
January 25th, 2009 at 13:52
Yes Richard,
If you know anything about Free Will, you will understand what I have said. I did not understand your motive behind mentioning one single line.
Yes ignorants always fail to understand the knowledgeable.
January 25th, 2009 at 14:13
Samir:
My point was that maybe the persons around you are, in fact, correct in their opinion of you.
January 25th, 2009 at 14:16
@Samir
Atheists are nothing? I don’t understand, are you going to explain?
January 25th, 2009 at 14:34
He’s an obvious loony; what can be
gained from this? – let’s save it for
the knaves and the fools.
_____
January 25th, 2009 at 15:08
Reply to Comment #4
To Chris,
No problem. I will be too happy to enlighten all of you on the subject.
Reply to Comment #5
To Colonel Leisure,
It is nice to see that you do not hate God. You have the right to be indifferent to religion. Mere denial of the existence of God is no proof of scientific temper. But most of the atheists think so. That’s why we call them morons…
Reply to Comment #6
To quedula,
Atheists deny the existence of God without understanding the true nature of God. Just for opposing violence & murders, you don’t have to be an atheist. God never tells me to go for violence & murder…
Reply to Comment #9
To Matthew,
You say : He justs wants you to realise that one’s choices have consequences and He fully respects your decision not to choose Him.
Yes, God won’t reject you simply because you are an atheist. If someone does not believe in science, it won’t make any difference to science. Just like that, if someone does not believe in God, it won’t make any difference to Him.
Unless your decisions/choices are in line with Absolute Truth, they won’t be acceptable to God.
Reply to Comment #10
To Jake,
Supernatural ideal is irrelevant to me as well. Realisation of God has got nothing to do with supernatural element.
Reply to Comment #11
To Chris,
You can treat Bible at par with any other book. But don’t treat it at par with any book on Evolution Theory. Those Anthropology kids do not know what is to be considered as scientifically verifiable data. Fairy Tales are somewhat more logical than Evolution Theory which is mistaken for scientific theory by atheist morons.
Reply to Comment #12
To Richard W.,
There’s just one & only one omnipotent Almighty. A strong urge to unearth the Truth will ensure that you keep moving towards Him.
Reply to Comment #13
To quedula,
Yes. That’s why sensible persons reject the stuff presented by anthropology-kids. These kids want that rubbish to be called as scientifically verifiable evidence.
Reply to Comment #15
To Matthew,
You say : I can’t stand the saying “there are many ways to God” because that means that God is confused, how can polar opposite ways such as Atheism, Christianity and Islam all result in eternal life with God???
These are not exactly “polar opposite ways”. Almighty resides at a point of Absolute Truth. So, an urge to unearth the Truth forms a common thread that binds all these seemingly different ways. This strong urge to unearth the Truth will take you closer to God – no matter whether you are an atheist, Christian or Muslim…
Reply to Comment #17
To Richard W,
You say : Where is the real proof that any form of god exists, whether Jehova or Brahman?
God or Brahman is to be realised through higher conscience. Here, the term “higher conscience” does not suggest any supernatural element…
Reply to Comment #23
To Chris J.,
You asked : Why did he create a planet full of pain and suffering, then blame it on us? why did he create a world in which miscarriages would kill even more babies?
Why have we created a system in which criminals are punished ? Just like that, you will face sorrow if you commit a crime of deviating from Truth.
You have to practice Equinimity/Stoicism to see beyond life’s ups & downs. Sorrows & pleasures are part of illusion. You cannot realise God unless you move beyond illusion.
January 25th, 2009 at 15:19
Where do you get all this stuff Samir? Were you instructed by someone or did you dream it all up yourself?
January 25th, 2009 at 15:43
Crikey, this guy’s got more fingers than our dear Fran!
Samir: Also on your site you claim: I am the most intelligent person on this globe, but nobody agrees with that.”
Well, Samir, I can understand everyone else’s reservations about your claim.
For instance, you’ve addressed your reply to #17 to me, “Richard W”, but it was actually written by someone else, just calling himself “Richard”. So we now know your powers of observation are fallible, Maybe your powers of reasoning are also infallible?
And you seem unable to answer to answer Chris J’s question: “If your god is against abortion, why did he create a world in which miscarriages would kill even more babies?”
So your own knowledge and powers of logic would also appear to be in doubt.
Finally, your website suggests you have more than a passing interest in “porn”. Can I suggest you widen your material to books without pictures?
January 25th, 2009 at 15:44
Reply to Comment #28
To Richard W,
Ignorants have the right to stick to their stupidity. Very few persons in my vicinity understand the term “FREE WILL”. To them that’s an alien concept from western philosophy. So, you are doing a nice job of aligning with ignorants in my vicinity. By the way, have you understood a single word from that article “Truthfulness” ? Don’t worry. Many atheists will be just like you.
Reply to Comment #29
To Chris,
Yes, I will prove that atheists are nothing. They are morons of course. Ask those sci-fi fellows from “Large Hedron Collider”. We have already crossed our swords.
Reply to Comment #30
To Adam Tjaavk,
It seems that atheist morons are running short of arguments. So, why don’t you conduct a cute little referendum against me on this site ? That’s the only way atheist morons can resort to when they are left with no rational justification.
January 25th, 2009 at 16:36
Reply to Comment #32
To quedulla,
Was I instructed by someone ? You will get the answer if you check my blogspace http://samirsp.blogspot.com
Reply to Comment #33
To Richard W,
Regarding Your comment about my profile caption : “I am the most intelligent person on this globe, but nobody agrees with that.” It simply suggests that in all probability you maybe a person having no common sense at all. That makes a perfect moralist. So, now I don’t think I should answer your childish remark regarding porn content on my blogspace.
Regarding Chris J’s question: “If your god is against abortion, why did he create a world in which miscarriages would kill even more babies?”
But for God, no one can have the authority to decide the life-span of a living organism. Under normal circumstances, terminating life of an embryo/foetus by implementing methods like miscarriages is the sole prerogative of Almighty. Through abortion, some half baked stupids want to annex God’s powers to themselves. That is not acceptable to many others.
And thanks for clarification about “Richard” & “Richard W.” Obviously, “Richard” does not seem as mediocre as Richard W. After reading your replies, I understand that on this globe, there are persons who are more ignorant than people in my vicinity.
January 25th, 2009 at 17:25
Hi Ariane, three humanist organizations have begun a bus campaign in the Netherlands too! See their website: http://verlichtingshumanisten.web-log.nl/
January 25th, 2009 at 19:45
Hi,
why do you call yourselves atheists. How can you have a name for not beleiving in something?
maybe your existence is so meaningless you need to prove that the existence of something else is insignificant to make yourselves feel better. Any way im with the Jesus Bus campaign all the way, they seem to have the right idea. http://www.jesusbus.org.uk
January 25th, 2009 at 19:53
@Samir
So you say you will prove atheists are nothing?
‘They are morons of course. Ask those sci-fi fellows from “Large Hedron Collider”. We have already crossed our swords.’
Is that your proof?
Also – why do you assume that only atheists are working on the LHC?
Finally – you talk of the need for ’scientifically verifiable data’ when you discuss the theory of evolution – so surely you must place the same restrictions on religion and religeous belief. Where is the scientifically verifiable data concerning God?
January 25th, 2009 at 19:58
Hi,
to answer the last point you may want to read what Ben Stein had to say:
http://www.awonderfullife.org.uk/confession.html
The majority of the world believe in God, and those that really are educated and seek the truth will end up beleiving in God because the evidence for God out weighs the evidence against.
Its funny because i contacted A wonderful life for a discussion and they said one argument from an atheist was a video clip of a foul mothed comedian giving his point of view…lol, we read books written by scholars, and theologians and atheists get their arguments from comedians, now thats a joke.
God Bless everyone
January 25th, 2009 at 20:05
Oh by the way, the foul mouthed comedian was George Carlin, i was not refering to Arianne. Although do you see a pattern emerging here…..
January 25th, 2009 at 21:31
…really are educated…
…we read books written by scholars…
Too bad none of it has rubbed off,
judging by all the illiteracy.
_____
January 25th, 2009 at 21:36
Hi “Christian”
Welcome to this site.
I posted the clip of the late, great George Carlin. He spoke a lot of sense in that 10 minute clip, more than I ever heard in any churches I’ve been to, nor seen on TV run by the money-hungry evangelists.
And Ben Stein makes an awful lot of money out of the gullible… Christian, do you see a pattern emerging here?!
“The evidence for God out weighs (sic) the evidence against”. Hey, it sounds like you also have a future in comedy, Christian!
Peace.
January 25th, 2009 at 22:35
Why do you call yourselves atheists?
How can you have a name for not
believing in something?
Karen Armstrong writes that “During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, the word ‘atheist’ was still reserved exclusively for polemic … The term ‘atheist’ was an insult. Nobody would have dreamed of calling himself an atheist.”
So atheists didn’t invent the word – but now very many of us accept it as a suitable name. We look askance at such as Bright as yet another in the long line of lily-livered euphemisms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
_____
January 25th, 2009 at 22:43
Samir,
You missed my point. Pain, suffering, miscarriages, etc all existed BEFORE humans evolved. So no, those things cannot be blamed on anything we do. You seem to be saying it’s not for humans to mess with the natural lifespan of living things, so does this mean you also don’t think babies and children should be given vaccines? If you were involved in a car crash, you’d prefer to be left to die than taken to a hospital? I need to know if you’re being consistent or not. You also failed to answer why this god would create miscarriages – just that he’s allowed.
Christian,
While most of the world does believe in a god, they believe in DIFFERENT gods, which contradict each other. For the sake of argument, even if one of these gods actually does exist, it still means there are millions upon millions of people who are completely wrong about the god they believe in. That’s just common sense, right?
January 25th, 2009 at 23:25
Billions of years pass – God is at rest. Then all of a sudden God sends into the world Moses/Jesus/Mohammed one after the other within a few thousand years and with conflicting messages. On the other hand, space is full of galaxies and galaxies – but No! God focuses all His attention to a tiny tiny point on earth to deal with Jesus’ cheek, Mohammed’s wives or Moses stick. This sounds so ridiculous that we need no proof for God’s non-existence.
January 25th, 2009 at 23:28
Hi,
i am not here to have a Theological debate, all that i am saying at the end of the day is that i have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and i can tell you that he is real. As for the rest, God gave us free will and he allows many things to happen. Its not hard to understand that if theres a God then theres a devil also. God does the good and the devil does the bad.
We cannot explain the universe so why do we spend hours trying to explain God. Either beleive or dont beleive, but if you make the wrong decision, it will affect you.
January 25th, 2009 at 23:54
Christian,
If a Muslim told you Allah was real and that he/she had a ‘personal relationship’ with him, would that convince you Allah existed? I doubt it. You’d need more than that, so try to understand we need more too when it comes to your god. Also, think of how you were raised. If it had been in a Muslim family, don’t you think there’s a high chance you’d be defending Allah right now and attributing all your feelings of a ‘personal relationship’ to him?
We can explain many things about the universe and we learn more all the time. You don’t think your god is completely unexplainable – you’ve narrowed down the list of gods available to one (without much research into them, I imagine) and you think you know his mind well enough to know what he wants. Can’t you produce one good reason for this belief?
Danny too,
If you support the Jesus bus campaign, which seems to welcome debate on the topic of whether a god exists, perhaps you could offer one good reason to believe. Unfortunately whenever I’ve debated this subject in the past, my ‘opponent’ ends up choosing not to, or being unable to answer all my questions. As is happening in this thread, by the look of it.
January 25th, 2009 at 23:56
“Christian”:
Whatever keeps you happy, though I note you were never able to come up with your “evidence for God”.
No worries, but some friendly advice: Don’t give too much of your hard-earned cash to people like Ben Stein, Ted Haggard, & their cronies – they’re always wanting more of your money to fund their amazing lifestyles.
Think about it…
Peace.
January 26th, 2009 at 0:16
From the website running the ‘Jesus Bus’ campaign (http://awonderfullife.org.uk/atheists.html)
‘What if there is a God? what if there’s a small chance that by not believing in God you might end up in hell like the scriptures say? Is it worth the risk? Surely it is better to live with the love of God and His principles than anything else, even if you just apply logic?’
So – do you really subscribe to this arguement Danny/Christian? What logic is there to a statement like that? If I told you that there was a being out there that was going to hunt down and kill anyone who wore a tie, would you destroy every tie you owned and take to the streets to preach tie-lessness in the hope of saving the lives of the poor, misinformed public? Sure…I could be talking rubbish, but ‘Is it worth the risk? Surely it’s better to live with the love of Me and My principles than anything else, even if you just apply logic?’ (quote slightly altered – obviously)
January 26th, 2009 at 1:12
Christian, we keep asking you whether you have any evidence for your belief? You don’t answer. Belief without evidence=Faith. I had faith in God, Jesus and Father Christmas (and the Tooth Fairy) because my parents in the kindness of their hearts told me so. But, to quote St. Paul, when I became a man (about 50 years ago now) I put away childish things. I wish Osama bin Laden and Torquemada had also grown up at the age of 17.